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I was wondering how many people here have taken ervin somogyis class?
I have talked to one guy on the forum here so far that has taken his class and he really liked it.
I'm thinking of taking his next class in november, but I wanted to hear other peoples feed back.
The class is a crap ton of money and I wanted to make sure I'm spending it wisely. I'm willing to bet it will
be a great investment in my future but I wanted to hear what other people have to say.

I haven't taken his class but am currently reading his books. Interesting stuff. Would you mind sharing the cost of his class?

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Sure. As of now they are $6000 for 9 days.

I worked for about 3 to 4 month with Ervin, eyeopening...

Cheers, Alex

I did back in 2007 or 2008... well worth it

Yikes that is expensive. Will you come back with a guitar? That would be a super cool experience.

I have never taken a guitarmaking class, but learned from others I took a number of violin./bowmaking classes and learned a bit , but IMHO the real learning starts when you get home and start working with wood, and then it/s many years later honing one/s skills.I/ve spoken to ervin and he seems like a good guy, I read his 2 books, and frankly was disappointed in his 2 books.I know people will get ticked, but I learned very little from his books .I thought the jigs photos black/white were too small for me to see, I prefer colour.Also I know he/s an english major, but a lot of the 50$ words went way over my head. My best advice, shop around and ask a lot of questions of all the usa luthiers selling guitarmaking classes, and then come to your own conclusions.Caveat Emptor latin for buyer beware.

I haven't taken the class, but...
If one were to compare the Gore/Gilet books to Somogyi's books, you will see that the first is full of data, and the second full of 'impressions, how to get you thinking' etc.
I can only imagine the classes wound be the same. Brian Galloup teaches an intensive course that actually deals with the math, and is about half the price. I expect that it would basically show a lot of the principles displayed in the Gore books. That was my impression from talking to him anyway.
I'd give a real serious doublethink about the Somogyi class if I were you.
Get the Gore/Gilet books first and see how far they take you ....

I'm not much a of a left brain builder. I like somogyis hands on ears on teaching. learning your wood and why it does what it does. the dude has been building for 40 years and his guitars start at $30k. that has to mean something.

My thoughts

From his website:
"The practical part is the heart of the class, and it takes a directly hands-on approach (as opposed to a scientific one using various forms of electronic or mechanical instrumentation). Everyone makes at least two guitar tops following my method. That is, we work to stiffness, not to thickness. We do this because of the innate variability of wood as a material: identically thicknessed plates of topwood can vary by up to 100% in density, 200% in longitudinal stiffness, and 300% in lateral stiffness. Because the guitar, when all is said and done, is nothing more nor less than a sound-producing air pump, the physical qualities of the materials become important tone-related qualities. It is much more useful to focus on a materials' actual stiffness and mass than simply on its dimensions."

It looks like the focus is on making and learning to voice tops only, since it seems that he expects you to already know the mechanical aspects of how to build a guitar first. If that's what you want fine, if not, find a guitar building course, not a voicing course.

Second, no instrumentation means that you will likely be dealing with his interpretation of highly subjective subject matter, and if his class treatment is anything like the articles I've read or the videos of his discourse that I've seen on Youtube and elsewhere, you will likely end up scratching your head and feeling more confused upon leaving the course than when you entered the course. He's very verbose and descriptive, but it seems to me to be more in an artistic way than a technical way. In other words, it probably makes perfect sense to him, but will it to you? But, that's what being a Guru is all about!
For that, $6000 seems like an AWFUL lot of money to spend, especially if the class is not one on one.

I could be completely wrong, perhaps some people who have taken the course can chime in?


If you are looking for a building course, check out Cumpiano's $5000 course. He actually takes you through the entire process step by step over a two week period, one on one. He doesn't tap-tune his instruments, but all the guitars I heard in his shop sounded incredible (except for the one with the carbon-fiber x-brace). He discusses how and why he gets the sound that he gets. I took the course and was extremely satisfied.

He's updated quite a bit from his book, which is arguably confusing (even with the corrections and updates on his web site), with procedural and hardware improvements that streamline the build process. His focus is on minimal jigs, and hand tooling, for the small shop with limited space, and in person he explains his methods and procedures with great clarity, so that you will come away with an understanding of how to adapt the procedures to your own shop and space, which I've done. I've even made changes where I deemed expedient.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

This makes me think of College, and having professors that are SOOOO smart and advanced at what they do, they cannot, for the life of them, convey/teach that to a beginner.

I had Raymond Chaio as my professor junior year Quantum Physics at Cal...Google the guy.

Worst teacher ever. Brilliant and genius, and a helova a guy, poor at teaching first year physics.

I also had this guy names Vaughan Jones (wiki this guy too!) for my first Calculus class as a freshman, second worst teacher I've ever had. He had a Fields Medal (like the Nobel for math) and the first test he gave (to 500 kids, including me) resulted in 50 people getting negative scores (due to multiple choice with penalty for guessing). He said "I thought it was easy, you should all study harder next time."

I suspect Symogi is similar.

From what I've heard he's not like that all. From what I've heard from the two guys I've talked to he's a really good teacher. I think I may have already sold myself on the class, but I wanted to hear what other people had to say.

pay for me and I'll go with ya
I've dreamed of attending. It seems like such a great opportunity.

From what I've heard about the class, he's not as high an mighty as people are thinking he is. When I emailed him, he replied the next with a book of an email explaining everything. It was really cool.

Most professors aren't tenured because of their teaching ability, but rather their contributions/research/etc. so the person may be highly gifted but he wouldn't be so good at conveying his discoveries to people who has absolutely no understanding or desire for the subject matter (since some classes are mandatory).

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

He is an outstanding teacher when he wants to be. My main criticism of the class is that there were clearly times when he didn't want to be.

I had a strange experience in that I found it terribly frustrating and worth the price at the same time. That was back in 2007 (same class as James).

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I'll say this much. When I went to Dream Guitars a few years ago, I didn't get to see a Somogy, but I did get to see a number of his student's guitars. Pretty impressive. They like them there, and get calls for them. Most of the folks I have seen write about his course spoke highly of it, and were pretty expressive about the "hands on" aspect of handling, reading and selecting tops, and formulating a different approach to the philosophy of the build. Somogy is very good about making one think, and his sense of humor is pretty good. He is also very approachable from what I've heard. He has his sense of propriety, but gives a lot.

I have both the Somogy books and the Gore books. They are very different approaches. Personally, I learned a lot from Somogy's books, about how to assess what I was doing, even though his subject was steel string oriented, and I build only classicals. I would jump at the opportunity to take his course, but probably wouldn't due to the cost and the inconvenience. After all, I'm old. If I was in my 30's 0r 40's I might do it. At my age I doubt I'd get enough years of use out of it to make it worthwhile. Nothing against the Gore books, though, it's just that I'll never convince myself to do all the scientific stuff. I have a friend that does, and he loves it. I really can't stand all that, but I like to read about it, and I'm glad someone likes it, and wants to write about it.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

That would also be my suggestion.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

As far as his teaching technique goes, I have had 9 years of higher education and Somogyi was the best instructor I ever came across. I remember things from 3 1/2 years ago like it was yesterday because of how he presented it. You start with the basics biological properties of trees and how they contribute to the sound and structure of the guitar, to being able to look at a braced top, guitar shape and size and make a relatively good argument for how that guitar will sound. In fact, the last exercise was evaluating just pictures of other builders guitars and giving your opinion on how that guitar might sound. One excersise that I found quite helpful was one where Ervin took about 200 different sitka tops, each top had different questions asked about it. After you discussed propertie of tops and how they affected the sound of a guitar, with reguard to stiffness, weight, tap tone, appearance etc., you had to evaluate each top individually and be able to make an intelligent argument for your opinion concerning each top. Another great great exercise was, Ervin gave each participate a theoretical client. You were given specific specs aand expectations the client was looking for and you had to design a guitar from the ground up and be able to defend your design infront of Ervin and the other participantes of the class. There was also homework ever evening to be discussed at the next days lecture. Personally, I don't think this class is for the beginner. While you would get a lot out of it, the more experience you bring to the class the more you will take away. It is important to have your building technique down, as this is not a class on guitar construction, but on what makes a guitar sound the way it does. $6k is a lot of money, but at some point in your lutherie journey it is well worth it. BTW the only people I have ever heard criticize his class are the ones who have not taken it.

Richard

+1 for Richard..

If you want to learn to build a guitar, Ervin is not your man. If you want to learn to evaluate what you are building now, why it sounds the way it does, and how to get more out of your current approach, he is your guy! You will never look at a guitar in the same way again.

My recent post Somogyi builds are extraordinary. People are blown away by them..

I would gladly pay for the workshop again! He was/is a great educator!

Are there any good luthiery instructors (that allows me to evaluate my builds and why it sounds they way they do) outside of the US? It is impossible for me to be in the US to attend classes except by correspondence (such as O Brien's luthiery course).

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I think the problem some have with Ervin is that he isn't trying to give you A answer, he's trying to give you several. If you're going into the class thinking you're going to learn how to build his guitars, well, you're going to be frustrated because that's not what the course is. The course, at its fundamental level is about how the top works, what factors influence its behavior, what does manipulating those variables do to the sound -- or what would we expect them to do. Say you want to get more fundamental out of your guitar, he discusses how you might accomplish that. He's not teaching you the Somogyi way in terms of "this is how I build," but rather, "this is what I consider when designing a top for a particular instrument." He is giving you the keys to the Kingdom, not the Kingdom itself. Whether you choose to walk through the door is another matter entirely.

David, you and I have had a friendly disagreement about this from the beginning and that actually brings up an interesting point about the class. The cost of admission ensures that the students will be pretty serious and ongoing discussions/relationships are one of the benefits.

What I disagree with is that I don't think Ervin's specific voicing methodology is particularly useful unless you are going down his path to some degree. Ervin builds a guitar that is quite different than anyone I'm aware of (except his apprentices and students) and his voicing method is informed by that. Put another way, I have played some truly outstanding instruments that his voicing methods would never produce. He does talk a lot about the fundamentals of how tops work but the nitty gritty of the class is about his voicing method. That's a good thing in my mind but it was also strange and frustrating that he was so secretive about exactly what he does while his voicing method is most applicable to his specific style of building.

Still worth it to me but I would not particularly recommend it to someone who's dead set on building vintage Martin style guitars. It doesn't translate.

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

So you're saying he charges $6,000.00 and still holds out on you?

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

I know for me, I just want to learn to build a truly out standing guitar. I don't want to build something and have some one say. hey, that sounds a lot like my martin. If that was happening, I would be waisting my time. I'll I admit, I haven't played a lot of high end guitars. So I'm not really sure what sound I'm truly aiming for your yet. they only high end I have played was a ryan. and to be honest it didn't blow me away, but it did have old string on it and my buddy never played it so it didn't get a chance to break in.