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I just bought some great wood at the lumber store viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=42631&hilit=sapele but I needed it resawn so I bought a band saw. It's a nearly new 18" Jet I got for $800.00 and with a new Wood Slicer blade it worked great on the Sapele. Then I found another piece of Cedar at another store and got 9 very nice tops out of that.

So I'm now looking for and able to re-saw some rough lumber and the cost of the saw will be paid for after a few more sets but there are other things that I think I will buy for quite a while.

The first thing that comes to mind is finger boards. For $9 from LMI I can get one slotted and for another $9 I can get one radiused. I don't have a slotting set-up and the radiusung by hand is a PIA and, to me, it seems like money very well spent versus my time. Another is nuts and saddles and of course tuners.

A very good argument could be made about the value of re-sawing as well. It takes time and there's no guarantee you won't mess up a very nice piece of wood, versus just buying complete sets.

Anyway just curious about the ratio of bought to made in house guitar parts and pieces in your shop.

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Thank You and Best To All

I buy tuners, truss rods, bridge pins, bindings and purflings. I have done a little resawing but I have found that it is easier and more cost effective to buy soundboards and back/side sets from reputable sources. It is cost effective for me to process Honduran Mahogany for one piece necks.

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Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

I try to buy pre-manufactured stuff as little as possible. For me, the whole point of this is to BUILD a guitar, no tto put together a kit.

I buy tuners and pins. I also buy T-bar stock to make non-adjustable truss rods. And Frets. And herringbone.
Everything else, I enjoy making it out of larger pieces of stock. Including kerfed linings!
On the current build, I'm going to try my hand ay makeing style 30 purflings and back strips. Should be interesting!

Mike

I'm really surprised at how excited I am to be building from wood I found (or wood that found me) and re-sawed myself, and I'll be making the bindings as well as my solid linings but I still buy my BWB purfling etc.

I guess we're talking a out a couple different things, cost effectiveness, versus time and effort. It's certainly cost effective to re-saw your own sets but the time, effort and required tools can change that equation very quickly. Right now i'm enjoying the re-saw adventure but that could change if i build more and more guitars.

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Thank You and Best To All

i don't buy any pre-made wooden parts. no "serviced" kit stuff. i buy tuners, fretwire, dot material, pins, nut/saddle blanks, truss rod, strap pins, and purfling/binding. i hope to cut that list down to the point to where i'm making everything but the fret wire. although not actually that hard to do, i'm not about to set up a wire rolling mill.

Buy what you can't make. If you have the skill set you will learn. some things are easier than others. I pretty much do buy in fretboards but I get 100 at a time. I am starting to make my w own necks but I do 90% resaw and make my own braces. Kerfing is a buy in as are bridges from a time standpoint but I make what I need when I don't have it.
Like anything if you want to bad enough , you will learn

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I guess I don't understand why someone who BUILDS guitars would buy a pre-cut and slotted fretboard, or a pre-milled neck. Or why someone would build a guitar and send it out to be finished.
The joy for me is creating each part by myself, and having the end result be an example of what I alone can do.

That's why I build.

Yeah, we can't all go out a fell a tree with an axe, or smelt metals for tuners from raw ore(well, we could...), but buying necks from Martin and CNC'd fingerboards seems to defeat the purpose of building/creating instruments.

If you're gonna have someone else do all the work, buy a whole guitar and have them do ALL the work.

The point in buying a pre made part is to be more efficient and to make more money. If you are a professional luthier, time is money and your customers would not know and probably wouldn't care if the neck or bridge was milled on a Cnc.
If building for fun or a hobby then it's different and you can afford to take your time and enjoy the process.
I do think one must be careful about qualifying a builder by how much they craft themselves. Very few builders truly make everything and I think it is better to focus on what is important like voicing and playability than to waste time making wood shavings.
For me, I do carve my necks and bridges by hand and have my fretboards Cnc'd, but I would not feel bad at all if the necks and bridges were machine cut as well. After a few hundred necks, do you really have to prove you can do the work by hand?

As always John very sage advice, and don't laugh please but i buy rosettes

Steve

Scratch builder . except for tuners, I can make pegs on my lathe, frets, end pins, bridge pins.If you are set up to do a lot of gtrs , more parts will have to be processed, or purchased.

I guess that's why we all have different reasons for building.

When I began I had very few woodworking tools and now I have quite a few guitar related tools so as that collection grows so does my desire to build more and more parts and pieces.

I've noticed that as my skills improve and as my experience expands so does my desire to build more myself. And as my experience grows so does my tool collection and my abilities to perform those tasks. Currently I don't have a good source for finger board material nor do I have a slotting jig but some day I can see myself with both.

Bridges and necks are something I've never considered not building myself but maybe purchasing those will make sense in the future..

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Thank You and Best To All

I do most of the wood pieces myself but don't begrudge anyone buying parts or having them made. As long as you understand how everything works and end up with the guitar you or your customer wants it's all good.

I don't have a table saw and so fretboards would truly be done by hand in my shop -- and I did just that early on. However, there are structural advantages to a CNC fretboard over what can be done with a table saw (minimal material removed during the slotting process). Also, I like the aesthetics of CNC fretboards that have fret slots that don't extend to the edge of the fretboard. For those reasons I outsource my fretboards. Also, I like the accuracy CNC's bring to fretboards. I also outsource my finish work -- polyester which I would not want to work with. I may look into an oil varnish finish and that I would do in my own shop but I really like the properties of polyester as a guitar finish.

In other words, there are very good reasons some of us choose to outsource certain parts of the build process. Personally, I feel that if you want to consider yourself an accomplished builder then you should be able to do every aspect of the build competently. For those of us that build professionally, making money and surviving require us to sometimes approach things from a different perspective.

I always buy bindings, purfling, pins, frets and tuners. I usually make everything else, but I have used rough carved necks and manufactured bridges depending on the project. I do not resaw any of my own tone wood, but I do have that project on the table.

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http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

For the most part, I like to do all the shaping of wood parts myself. But rough resawing work I prefer to farm out in the form of buying tops/backs/sides pre-sliced, and fingerboard blanks reasonably close to final thickness. I like fan frets, so hand slotting of fingerboards is an important skill for me. Bindings can either be pre-sliced, or sometimes I buy 1/4" thick boards from a local place and saw strips off the edge by hand.

I also buy truss rods, fretwire, tuners, bridge pins, nut/saddle blanks. I'm tempted to get a mini-lathe for pins though, because I'd like to have more material options in 3 degree unslotted style.

Finishing is something I'd farm out if I wanted a finish that uses hazardous chemicals. But I'm happier doing it myself and limiting my choices to relatively safe materials like shellac and oil varnish.

I purchase metal parts, bridge pins, and purfling, but on the 2 fan fret builds I purchased a cnc fret board. I have done some resawing but mostly buy tops and back/side sets from vendors, Over the 1st 4 guitars I progressed from kit to total scratch built, as stated by other above I also enjoy all aspects of the build process and paid my dues in the spray booth and in front of a buffer. I have no issue with buying cnc parts or farming out the finish but I want to do it myself, maybe if I built more per year I might change my mind and purchase cnc parts.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

All the wood pieces with the exception of the fingerboard i make myself,though I have bought bridges and top sets. I don't trust myself to be accurate enough to cut the slots. I think it would not matter if the neck was 1/16 thicker or the lower bout was 1/8 smaller, but I don't want to be out even the kerf thickness on the slots. I did make a LP style truss rod for one but it turned to be more hassle chasing around than just ordering it. Nuts and saddles are easy enough to make and inexpensive if you buy 8 or 10 blanks at a time.

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My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.

I still make all my own bridges, fretboards and necks. I do buy the reverse Kerfed lining. I don't resaw my tops and backs but make all my braces from split billets I purchase. I sometimes buy wood binding but like using the same wood as the sides much of the time so I cut that.

I carved my first few archtops but on the current build I went with a top and back that were roughed in on a CNC. I'm liking that.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I hate buying anything but find myself buying all the metal parts. Everything else, except bridge pins, I make myself . Used to make my own truss rods but they were never as good as the ones I buy and it's not an area I want a badly made part in. The worst is making your own kerfling but I'm such a tight arse I'd sooner spend several hours in a repetitive job than spend a few pounds for ready made ones. Which is a waste of my time and not very good for the economy.
Really want to start making my own bridge pins.
Hay, Fillipo, can you do a tutorial?

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We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at guitars.

I'm in the camp of make everything except tuning machines, fret wire, bridge pins, and truss rods.

I resaw my own backs and sides unless the wood is not a domestic or I'm looking for a spectacular piece. I buy my Spruce tops because I have to.

I cannot bring myself to buy a pre-made necks and fingerboards. The neck is half the guitar. I cannot believe myself if I say I made the guitar but know that I only made half of it.

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

This is a topic that every few years gets discussed with the latest iteration of forum members and sometimes the folks who have been around here, the OLF for much longer.

Sometimes in the past topics such as using CNCed or commercially available necks have been started for what seems to be an effort to differentiate one builder, at times the OP (but not in this case I am sure) from others who may utilize commercially available parts.

To me it's simple and my own thinking starts with what is the goal of the specific, individual builder? If your goal is to glean great enjoyment out of toiling endlessly with chisel in hand as your beard grows all the while (no insult intended to females) craft away and make all that you wish yourself.

If you are more interested in other very important aspects of building great guitars such as what Sam already said, playability, tone, and I'll add my favorite - serviceability you may indeed find that time is money and you may also recognize that there are some things that represent real value for your prospective clients that might be best outsourced.

For example CNC fretboards. David Collins has been building a database of fret spacing on all manner of instruments from pre-war Martins, Gibsons, to modern day offerings including individual Luthier guitars. Each instrument is measured with precision, calibrated tools and the results are then graphed and recorded in a program that he uses. With this data we can see, visually, why some instruments may, well, er..... suck when it comes to playing in tune or as near as an imperfect design such as a guitar can play in tune. We see fret spacing errors that WILL be detectable by the player and listener. Who needs it?

OTOH CNCed boards from John Watkins and now Andy Birko show spacing that is the best ever surveyed by the study. And again this level of precision does represent real value to clients and the maker as well in that the instrument will play in tune more consistently all over the neck than an instrument where the board was slotted manually and contains many slight errors.

Also for those of you who have not attended some of the biggest shows in the individual maker/Luthier world such as Healsburg what you need to know that you would already know if you did some recon is that the bar for quality for Luthier made instruments is pretty high.... One thing that often freaks out newer builders with aspirations of making a living in the trade are the finishes available from pro finishers. At the shows many of the big name builder guitars have been finished by a finishing pro such as Joe White. Although we all tend to learn to do some finishing it's not uncommon for finishing to be outsourced too because the results are excellent. And.... when your stuff is on a table next to someone who has had their stuff finished by a pro finisher unless your finishing chops are excellent your work may not stack up to the competition.

One of the threads in the past that in my view was started to differentiate the OP and some participants from the rest, or was an attempt at same, ended up with one of the folks who despised outsourcing anything changing their mind and outsourcing the finishing.... Hypocrite or smart guy? I suspect he had no choice when comparing his own finishing chops to the competition.

So it's all about what you wish to accomplish and there is no right or wrong here because the context of the question must always be what works best for YOU and not if there is peer pressure, someone sticking out their chest claiming superiority because they make everything including growing the tree, smelting the steel for the ax, etc.

For me with my own stuff I want the very best value possible for my prospective clients. If this means letting a pro finish my guitars because they can do a better job - fine. If this also means that I want my instruments to play in tune better than the competition I'm going to go for a level of precision that gets me to where I want to be even if that means out sourcing my boards. If I can make a bridge, do it every day in the repair world... and have made my bridges in the past I'm also fine with letting one of the great CNC guys make up batches for me so that I can concentrate on something that only I can do to my own satisfaction, voicing, set-up, etc.

If it's your bag to craft everything that you can yourself more power too ya. Just be sure if you plan on selling your instruments to check out the competition and be honest as to where your chops get you in respect to market trends, overall quality expectations, how well it plays, sounds, and is it a serviceable investment for your prospective clients representing even greater value.

Personally I get the biggest kick out of voicing and carving braces. It's pretty cool to be a part of hearing and feeling... a top open up as you methodically do what ever you do to voice your tops.

In photography there is a term - the money shot. It's an attempt at defining what's important for the photographer. In Lutherie and depending on what level of participation an individual may personally desire the money shot may be making everything your self, voicing, playability, serviceability, uber thin glue lines, the carpentry aspects, etc. What subset if any of this list is completely up to you.

Know in advance that once you go commercial you are no longer measured in the vacuum of your shop and circle of friends. Clients have expectations and what we do to address these expectations and how successful we are in this effort will be key to what you end up producing and how well received your stuff is.

For me years ago I tuned out the folks who wanted to proclaim "Lutherie Purity..." as poorly veiled attempts at proclamations of superiority and instead did what I wanted to do, how I wanted to do it, when I want to do it, and as much as I want to do.

My suggestion for everyone here is to do what ever you wish and hopefully enjoy the hell out of every minute too.

I buy strings...

I try to balance the time and cost. Sometimes I will buy an item and sometimes I will make it. Simple purflings I make, herringbone I will buy, 1/2 herringbone I will cut from bought stuff. Spruce soundboards I will buy a dozen or more at a time to save money (at this point I have enough to outlast me). Cedar tops I resaw when I find a nice board. Fingerboards I generally cut and slot myself, but when I found 50 bass guitar boards (that cut down make guitar F.B.s) for a buck apiece, already radiused and slotted, I bought them. Some back and side sets I buy, some I resaw, and some I build up from veneers. Bridges I make from inexpensive "B" grade African blackwood, or some BRW knife scales from a company that went out of business, plus a few other things. I make necks myself from 4 or 5 quarter stock and glue up a block for the heel, and join the peghead, to minimize waste. I generally use old fashioned single acting Gibson style truss rods that I make myself. Linings I make on a tablesaw. It's set up to use several 7 1/2 inch Diablo blades to cut multiple kerfs at the same time. I try to make a years worth when I make it. I have a bunch of baltic birch scrap that I make blocking from. Most of the metal parts I buy, but occasionally I will make a tailpiece out of brass or nickel silver.
As an amateur I try to keep my material costs down. I don't buy stuff that is advertised as "Mastergrade" or goes for a premium much beyond it's functional worth, but I do try to use good materials to build a decent instrument. I like to build all sorts of instruments, and sometimes the scraps from one will work for parts of another (a good reason to build ukuleles )

He isn't kidding.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Maybe if you had some decent chisels, just saying.

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.