Official Luthiers Forum!

Hanalei-moon is closed due to storm damage (Sandy). Anybody have a suggestion? Maybe now I do my own? If I do my own, guess I need advice on how to proceed. I have been putting this off. However, I did buy that neck jig from Luthier Tools. With every template they have. Guess I need to do this.

Mike

I enjoy doing my own necks greatly.

It allows more flexibility when laying out wood/color schemes.

This one I used a 5 piece laminated neck with two purpleheart stripes and a flame maple stripe.

The purpleheart for the neck, binding, and purflings all came from the same piece of wood so that the shades would match correctly.

I'm not sure how I would have been able to do this with a pre-carved neck.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

You need a good plane as you are going to need to square up the fret board surface and to use if you make a scarf joint. The plane needs to be big enough so that you can truly square the neck blank. Also I really like using my band saw. Other than that I was surprised at how straight forward carving a neck could be. I enjoy the work.

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http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

I started out using pre-carved necks, but carving them didn't turn out to be as hard as I thought it would. I also enjoy the carving. I have previously bought band sawed neck blanks from Martin (they don't seem to sell them anymore - I still have a couple) and RC Tonewoods. On my next one I intend to cut the scarf joint and do a stacked heel. I will probably laminate the center portion as Robbie O'Brien does. Looking forward to it...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

Mike, I was faced with the same Hanalei-Moon issue, but ultimately I think it's a good thing because it forces me to step up and grow by learning something that's been on the list. John's necks were a great solution, no doubt. As much as I'm looking forward to carving away, I'll miss the quality and flexibility he offered us.

I learned a great deal about the process and the tools from Todd's posts, but unfortunately they disappeared along with him. When I was in the initial research phase, I decided to do the shaping work with two rasps. I ordered the 10" #9 grain cabinet maker's rasp, and the 7" #13 modeller's from Liogier. Hand-made in France, and the total cost was less than the cost of the equivalent Auriou's before shipping. What really blew me away was that Noel made the rasps specifically for me---they weren't sitting around in inventory.

Regarding method, I bought the chapters from Robbie O'Brien's course on carving the neck, and really like the step by step in Trevor's Build book. They both use mortise/tenon joints, but I'll likely use a butt.

John Hall, at Blues Creek Guitars and the Kit Guitar Forum, is taking over making and selling Hanalei Moon necks. See this thread:
http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6553&p=33508&hilit=hanalei+moon#p33508

You can also buy seconds straight from Martin. I buy them 5 at a time, the defects are so miniscule its almost a shame they don't make the cut. Just call them directly during business hours, they're not listed on line. Last time I paid $15 and the matching block was another $5. For the little cheapies I make to fill in between commissions they're perfect.

Mikey

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The Biggest Little City, Nevada
www.hammondguitars.com
I love building guitars!

Todd disappeared? Man, what is going on? Hanalei is gone, Shane is gone or going.

Yeah, its time I step up and learn this part.

Mike

Not to get everyone's hopes up too fast but I am tooling up to start semi-custom neck production. I expect to be able to start supplying basic necks within a few months. I've spoken with Chris at Hanelei and he's been gracious enough to share some of his wisdom on neck making with me. As a side bonus, I plan on having matching fretboards as well that will have alignment holes.

These necks will allow for certain custom parameters such as scale length, width at the nut, join fret, volute type and perhaps a few other things.

Please be patient though - it will take a little bit to get the fixtures and everything vetted out so that I can provide a quality product that I can be proud of. So again, I imagine the first necks will be off the machine in a month or so with the ability to take orders a few weeks to a month later depending on what I learn. First necks will be basic mahogany straight tenon and go from there.

If anyone has any "must have" features, now's the time to let me know so that I can build the adaptability into my model.

Sorry for the tease I know but just thought I'd throw it out there. I'm working with Mike Franks on this but I might need another beta tester or two as well.

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

I'm sure your necks will be fabulous, Andy!

For those who aren't familiar with Andy's work, it's top-notch.

The man is picky and detail-oriented, and will do the job for you as if he were doing it for himself.

Plus he's pleasant and easy to deal with.

I've got another "S" order coming up Andy, it's taking me a little longer than I though to save up some cash, but I've been talking to some guys about some guitar sales.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

LMI and StewMac sells carved necks. Carving necks is not as difficult as it seems though. It is my favorite part of the build, since I'm really working the wood with hand tools (well, after band sawing the rough shape), and get to watch a block of wood turn into a neck. All you need is a few high quality rasps and chisel for the heel, and a small drawknife and spoke shave for the neck. Draw out facet lines and just cut to the line. Then draw a few more facet lines and cut to the line, then finish with sandpaper. Cumpiano has great illustrations on how to do it. The fretboard plane should already be flat from the initial milling, but if not a few licks on a sanding board will take care of it.

Goodin, please post a picture of your complete toolset plus a description of each. (If u don't mind). I find it easier to figure when I can see the tools.

Mike

I started out with these and they really work, http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Files ... xsr=225475
I have a few Liogier rasp now and will get a few more but the two from Stew Mac will get it done. Also a 6, & a 12 inch straight edge are necessary.

Will do Mike. It will probably be tomorrow sometime.

Here you go Mike...

From top to bottom:
Microplane rasp
Auriou 7" modeler's rasp, 13 grain
Auriou 10" cabinet rasp, 9 grain
Witherby paring chisel (I believe this is 3/4" shown)
Pfeil 4 1/2" wide draw knife
Old Stanley spokeshave, 2" wide blade (not sure the model)
A sanding block I made out of a scrap piece of mahogany, made into a conical shape to closely form to the heel

Notes about some of the tools:
The microplanes are cheap and a great entry into rasps. The one shown in the picture is great for hogging off lots of material. The Auriou rasps are expensive but cut like butter and they are well worth the investment. I will eventually get a coarse Auriou cabinet rasp to replace the microplane. The Witherby paring chisel is great, but any sharp bench or paring chisel will work for this task. I'm not totally satisfied with the Pfeil drawknife. I wish the handles were heavier. One of these days I will get a vintage draw knife with heavier handles.

Procedure:
Make sure all tools are as sharp as possible. If the tools aren't sharp, there is a great risk of tear out, poor quality cut, and even injury. I cut out the rough shape of the neck on the band saw (I use a 3"x4" billet), then I use the chisel to cut primary, and secondary facets on the heel (see Cumpiano), then use the draw knife to cut primary and secondary facets on the neck shaft. I then go back to the heel with the microplane to hog off more material, then use the big Auriou to further fine tune the shape of the heel, then I finish the heel with my custom made sanding block with 80 grit followed by 120 grit. For the curved areas where the back of the headstock meets the neck, I use the modeller's rasp followed by a ~3/4" dowel stick (not pictured) with 80 grit then 120 grit. The neck shaft is then further shaped with the spoke shave, followed by 80 grit with a shoe shine method (no sanding blocks or backing), and with the grain, then finished with 120 grit.

I hope this helps.

Just thought I'd mention that the 3D modeling for the necks are going well. All the big parameters such as scale length, nut width etc. are selectable as are some of the smaller ones. This pic shows a diamond volute but I'll have a couple of other options available as well. These necks will have alignment holes to match fretboards as well.

Again, if anyone has any must have features, please let me know.

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

I have that same Witherby chisel!

Cool.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Yeah I have a whole set I put together from Ebay. Great chisels for $20-30 each!

I have found that the Lee Valley Contour Planes work really well. http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.a ... 1182,46334

I also like Surform planes...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

Would you say these hog off more than a spoke shave?

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Pat

I don't think I've ever done a tutorial but I'll take a crack at it. Here's how I currently make necks, and as usual I am sure there are many methods that work as well or better but for what it's worth here we go.

I use a two part neck. True up one side of the shaft part and flatten the top and headstock area on the jointer so the nut break point is perpendicular that side.
Cut the truss rod slot on the router table and the carbon reinforcing bar slots on the table saw.






Flatten the gluing area for the heel with a drill press disk sander



Glue up the heel block and cut to proper length.



Trace the profile with a template and cut close with the bandsaw. The neck is held parallel to the blade by a jig that keys in the truss rod slot.





The taper is traced with a fretboard surrogate that keys in the slot and cut a little outside the line.



I have made profile jigs for the various neck sizes I use that allow me to sand the exact profile from heel to the nut area with the robo sander on the drill press.
The stabilizing device for the end of the RoboSander is important. (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.a ... at=1,42500)



Carbon bars and headstock veneer are glued and the shape cut with a router template. I use the Robosander first followed by the router to avoid disasters.





Headstock is thicknessed on the belt sander. Following this I freehand the short transition area between neck and headstock with the robosander



At this point the tenon is cut, I use a conventional router jig shown that allows the angle of the cheeks to be set. Bolt on hardware and reinforcing material are installed.









Heel cheeks are cut with a template and Robosander on the drill press moving the bearing to the top of the Robosander. Excess wood is first removed with a coping saw. The same jig used on thebandsaw is used to hold the neck with the pins relocated.





The neck set and centerline alignment is refined.



Truss rod is installed, fretboard glued, and the neck flushed up with the edge of the fretboard using the router table. Strips of brown binding tape are layered on either side of the fretboard so it sits level on the router table and a slightly oversize surrogate nut is taped in for safety in that area.





Shaping starts with an accurate centerline drawn, and lines for two facets on the shaft as well as the location of the nut, first, and 10th frets. I draw the circle for the volute with a compass. I shape the neck at the first fret as accurately as possible with a microplane, Nicholsen rasps and sandpaper sticks.



Blend in the transition with chisels, the small Grobet and Dragon rasps, scrapers, and sanding forms.



Next the profile at the 10th fret. Same tools.



Rough shape the heel profile with the Grizzley pneumatic sanding drums on hand held drills, and blend into the 10th fret area with chisels, the Nicholson, Grobet, and Dragon rasps. Refine with the smaller sanding drums, rasps and scrapers as well as sanding forms.





The facets are marked on the shaft area and I just sand down to them with 36G on a 5" Dynabrade air sander. Then I switch to higher grits to refine the facets finishing at 80 to blend things together.





I finish up with a 4-6" flat sanding block with 80G as well as "shoeshine" sanding to refine and level the shaft and blend the fretboard transition into the neck (very important!).



At this point you are usually a little fatigued and it's not a bad idea to set the neck aside and check it again the next day feeling for bumps, the feel of the shaft headstock transition area and the heel shaft area. Amazing how stuff pops up that you missed. I frequently do a little more work in these areas at that time.

Side marker installation and usually leveling after installing the fretboard tenon and bolting on the the body follows. I usually fret at this time as well but don't level the frets until after finish.









Finish sanding using Naptha to find every scratch and that's it. Now for the really hard part--finishing!!

Finally here's a picture I took during an outdoor shaping session. Shows a lot of the tools.



This got a little out of control but hey it's what I do.

Thanks

Terry

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Hey Terry, nice job

Be nice if that made it's way into the tutorial section - I could have really used that about 8 years ago

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I just ordered a couple of their seconds. The 14 fret necks were $40 and the 12 fret slot heads were $90. The matching blocks a $5.95.

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Brad

Terry,

Thanks for the tutorial!I made about 10 necks, but I still found a lot to consider in your procedures. Please do not leave and take it with you.

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http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

Thanks for the tutorial, nice one Terence!
One of my favorite things about guitar making, but I'm still a bit nervous at the start.
Which is just about now for no 6.

I'm an all hand tools guy at this stage.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.