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Finishing the guitars isn't my favourite part of the process.

If money wasn't a problem, what would your choice of finishing schedule be.

I like the sound of UV cured processes but never tried it...

My choice would be to send it off to a professional finisher.

If money was no problem I'd be building a lot more guitars, but I'd probably still finish with FP or Liberon Finishing Oil.
But my opinion is worth little

Farm it out, or just employ your own finisher.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Exactly. Contract it out.

It depends....

Finish choice for me is very much a function of who's going to be playing the instrument, the intended purpose, and what this instrument might expect in it's life.

More specifically for a gigging musician that has a beer bottle thrown at them once in a while cat poly would be my first choice - very, very tough finish, the toughest that I know of while still sounding great.

If the gutiar was going to be used for recording or where tone is the primary objective french polished shelac is my fav. if you are looking for a lush tone unconstrained by finish.

If it's for a friend who drools scotch FPS would not hold up and other choices would be better.

If you like the amber color of a vintage instrument some finishes do not amber well over time. Cat poly does, nitro, does, FPS does it best IMHO, and cat urathane ambers the least IME.

I am very picky about finishing and pride myself in the job I do. I did however learn to FP back in the late 60's early 70's, through most of the 70's and 80's I did custom and restoration finish work on cars and motorcycles and then I spent 5 years doing custom finishes and restoration on furniture.

If money is no object and you don't want to learn the process then sublet the work to someone that knows their stuff. You will pay top dollar and probably get what you pay for. On the other hand if you want to learn how do do finishing and want to say you did everything from start to finish (pun intened) then I would suggest starting with Lacquer. It is the easiest finish to do and repair. The biggest thing you need to learn is spray gun technique to be able to lay down a smooth finish.

The other aspect I would give serious thought to if I were in your position is the ability to repair a finish. Lacquer, French Polish, and Oil finishes are fairly easy to repair which if you are just learning is in my opinion is most important since you are bound to make mistakes. Lacquer is probably the most forgiving finish where 2K clears are the opposite. If you sell a guitar you should be able to repair all aspects of an instrument (just my opinion)

So it really depends on how much you want to claim a guitar is all your work.

The easy answer is to job all your finish work out if money is no object. I would probably charge anywhere from $800 to $2000 and I would be happy to do any of your finish work for you.

Cheers,
Bob

A lacquer made from the finest quality Baltic amber.

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We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at guitars.

Thanks chaps

Perhaps I gave the wrong impression - I didn't mean to infer that money is no object, rather I was interested to see if everyone is doing what they want or are restricted in their techniques due to thigh cost of setting up some forms of finishing processes.

I've French polished and used hand applied tru oil recently but I have a hankering to spray finish the next one. I struggle for space in the workshop to setup a spray area though.

Contracting out is not something I'm interested in. My guitars are all my work.

I used cans of nitro on my last one: They worked. That's about all I can say for them. Wasn't ideal without a booth either.

If money were no object, then I'd find a way to have a proper spray setup. For the times when FP and oils are out of the question.

UKSteve,

Lacquer is something you can do with out an expensive booth and as Nick pointed out you can do it with spray cans. What you do need is good ventilation to exhaust the fumes because it is not something you want to breath in. It can be as simple as plastic hung to section off a space in your shop near a door or a window and a fan to pull the fumes out.

I have seen guys do very nice final work even though they use spray cans because with lacquer you can wet sand it and buff it to a beautiful shine. It dries fairly quickly as long as you don't pile on the coats it will be tack free in just a few minutes. So by the quick flash time you can produce a pretty dirt and dust free finish. Even if you do get a few dust spots in it you can give it a few hours to dry and sand them out and re-coat in a rather quick timeframe. Give it a week or two to dry then wet sand starting with 800 grit working up to 1200 and then buff to a beautiful gloss. I hand buff all of my finishes so it doesn't even require a power buffer to get a great durable finish. Just don't wax it for about 60 days.

Pretty simple actually and as I said before if you ever need to repair it it is very easy to spot in (but that does require a bit more knowledge and finess).

I say try it on a few practice pieces before you do the real thing.

Good luck

Cheers,
Bob

Hi ya Bob. I don't think it's that simple. Have you been to Healsburg? I'm asking because many of the biggest names in the biz outsource their finishing and it's not because they don't know how to finish a guitar or that they are not pickier than you or I. They do it because some of the very talented finishers out here such as Joe White WILL do a better job than you or I. Many Luthiers who have decades of experience still farm out finishing exactly because they do want the very best for their clients and they ARE as picky as can be.

To me it's important to be capable of doing everything on a guitar including decent finishes. But I also completely understand the need to compete with others who can deliver a superb finish, that was outsourced, and I also understand the notion of wanting the very best for your clients and guitars even if it means contracting with a pro for finishing. Let's remember too that this is not cheap either and in my mind representative of that desire to go for the very best in all respects with our guitars.

This idea of doing everything yourself is noble, and understandable. No one wants to have an dependency on anyone else... It's also like the hand tool argument where some folks want everything to be done with hand tools.

As romantic as this is I have yet to ever meet any guitar purchaser who listed the primary reason for the instrument that they selected as all hand tool use or the finish was not farmed out to a pro. Instead and in Six Sigma speak the CTQs (critical to quality) of the guitar buying public is typically cosmetics, tone, playability, etc. not in any specific order.

Folks who are entertaining selling instruments be sure to attend the shows and see where the bar is and why. You may be very surprised....

OK...

See Ya...
Bob

"Perhaps I gave the wrong impression - I didn't mean to infer that money is no object, rather I was interested to see if everyone is doing what they want or are restricted in their techniques due to thigh cost of setting up some forms of finishing processes."

I think to some extent most of us are constrained by the costs of equipment, labor, and materials. I try to balance the costs of building an instrument with the price I may eventually sell it for (even as a hobby builder). But there are many low cost options that if practiced to perfection yield a superior finish at a moderate cost.

Steve,

If you haven't sprayed before, I would recommend lacquer. It is a very forgiving finish to spray, each coat melts into the last and most problems can be solved by sanding them out or spraying another coat on top.
The UV cure stuff intrigues me but I've heard of some problems and the cost of the lights put me off. I like catalyzed urethane but haven't made it through the learning curve far enough to put it on a good instrument yet. Catalyzed polyester is what I'd like to try but I haven't found the time to pester Joe White into giving me the run down on what's involved yet. (Hi Joe!)

Spend your cash on a good spray rig, the Fuji HVLP turbine units are excellent, and some sort of spray booth. You'll need these no mater what you choose to spray. The booth doesn't have to be fancy but good enough to keep the dust out of your finish and the finish out of your lungs. There are some pictures around of knock down spray booths since space is at a premium in your shop. A google search will help you or perhaps some of the guys will show pictures of their setups. I've been known to use some plastic sheething hung from the ceiling to the floor and a box fan with 4 or 5 furnace filters in front of it. Not ideal by any stretch but it works. If you choose a catalyzed finish, you will have to get real serious about the spray booth and personal protection. Lacquer will kill brain cells, the others will really mess you up.

Steve

To add if you go the HVLP route, be aware that in addition to a clean spray booth area, the area around the turbine unit also MUST be free of dust and debris or else it WILL get sucked into the turbine and blown onto your project. Sometimes things can work it through the filters.

HVLP is much more efficient materialwise than compressor systems and will save you money on material in the long (and even short) run.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

It's called finish for a reason, it's the last thing done to the object. Finish is the icing on the cake....it's the initial bit of eye candy that draws people in and makes them want to feel and play the instrument. Face it, no matter how well it plays or sounds if it doesn't look good few will ever pick it up. Finishing is a completely different skill set requiring different tools than actual building. Yes you can use many things like wipe on poly or oil. You can do a decent job with a spray can. But how do your guitars look for all the penny pinching? Spend $500 on a back and sides set and then cheap out on the finish? There should be no such thing as a "money no object finishing schedule". The finish, like all other parts of the build should always get all the attention it deserves. Finish materials are fairly inexpensive......so the only money to really be saved is labor. But is that a savings? Do you have unlimited time on your hands? How much time do you wrap up into trying to save a few $ on the finish? Time that could be spent doing something else that you are better at or enjoy more. And in the end what do you have? Be honest... if you walked into a nicer guitar shop that sells fine instruments how would yours compare to what is hanging? If it is on equal footing good for you, but if it is not what did you really save?

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

I would start with a spray boot tricked out and dialled in and a stable of guns, rotary compressor (just because moneys no object here) etc. I would also have a fresh air mask setup. I would start with nitro as it's probably the easiest to work with. Get your finishing chops down and go from there. Finishing can be a pain at times but can also be a very gratifying part of the build.

Great topic. After making myself sick for 3 days, and thinking my liver had died on me, I will never again spray nitro without a proper spray booth and IDLH respiratory equipment. That stuff is nasty and should always be taken seriously. So, I will probably farm out a nitro finish until I get a proper booth set up (and drying box).

Would anyone care to give a realistic estimate for a professional nitro spray job? Just to spray it and let it cure for 3 weeks (the builder would do all prep work, taping off, final sanding, and buffing).

Hi Steve!

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jw ( o)===:::

"Would anyone care to give a realistic estimate for a professional nitro spray job? Just to spray it and let it cure for 3 weeks (the builder would do all prep work, taping off, final sanding, and buffing)."

Most professional finishers that I know prefer to do their own "prep work" . Until you have done a fair amount of finishing you don't realize exactly how meticulous the prep work has to be to get a fine finish. Likewise final sanding and buffing is a finishing skill that takes time to learn and poorly done can undo a good spray job in seconds.

If you are sensitive to nitro lacquer you should consider using something else - french polish, varnish or drying oils. Or send it out if Nitro is a must.

About $500 seems to be the going rate for a professional job. Clay is correct, I don't know of any pro who would do only part of the work. Earl Schieb?

The finishers I have worked with expect the instrument to be properly prepped before shipment. Sanded to 220 and no missed scratches. A definite up charge if they have to do additional surface prep.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I would stick to using Nitro Lacquer. It's the easiest and most forgiving of finishes to get right IMO. I would just ensure the booth and gun(s) are set up properly and that I'd have a dedicated spray room of at least 10'x10' with awesome lighting

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