Official Luthiers Forum!

Here is the latest Luthier Tips du Jour video - The topic is how to accelerate the break in process on an instrument.
This video as well as all my other videos are available via my website http://www.obrienguitars.com/videos/, LMI's website or on Youtube.
Enjoy!

Thanks for that Robbie. ...but, you didn't give your opinion... I have used an aquarium air pump and it seems to allow a new build to "settle in".

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

I am considering one of these... anyone with experience using one on multiple guitars have an opinion?

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It will probably be alright.

Let me start by saying I have no interest in Tonerite as a business venture. I do not represent them nor do I benefit in any way from their sales. My objective is to put out information to the masses and therefore allow folks to draw their own conclusions. With that said, I do have a Tonerite device in my shop and feel that my instruments as well as other people's instruments have benefited from it. I will allow you to draw your own conclusion.

Not that I'm into the BS of advertising and I'm not advocating one over the other, but I have this unit.

http://prime-vibe.com/#

What I like about it is that the transducers sit right on the top, and you can play REAL music through the gizmo. I like to play classical through it as classical covers the gamut from high to low, loud to quiet, you name it. I can turn it up fairly loud in my shop and not hear it at all upstairs. You can also cover the soundhole and it's really quiet then. It turns your guitar box into a great loudspeaker when you are in the shop.
This is not a testimonial folks...I just have one and use it.

I've been using one on new builds for several years to hopefully accelerate the settling in process. I stick it on for three days after string-up at med-high and then do the final setup. I think the action comes up a little faster and the initial setup holds better but it has not been dramatic. It has not hurt anything. An modified aquarium pump with a rheostat should do the same thing.

I plan to continue to use it on new builds. I've had no experience with using it on older guitars.

How long do you treat your new guitars Haans?

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Terry, I really don't use it that much. If I need a guitar or mandolin to get a "start" at breaking in, I will use it for a time to help settle the lacquer a little more quickly. I'm in the midst of my own little experiment of just letting ready to sand boxes sit in the shop. I am about to string 2 that have sat for over a year, soaking up machine vibrations and noise. I did this last year and thought I detected a more broken in sound after finishing the instruments. This winter I am doing it again. I have two instruments ready to finish so far and 3 sets of tops and backs braced and sitting there waiting to be built. I will try to get those put together before the spring thaw when I can start spraying again.
Sometimes I also use the Vibe thing on them for a day or two. Unfortunately, I usually forget about using the unit. Sign of the times...
Once in a while I will run one for a week after finishing, and I used to stick those rotating headphones in cases with the top not latched and let those go for a week or so.
I can't say that the clouds part and heaven reveals itself after treating, but does seem like it helps a bit.
In my view, nothing beats playing it in yourself. I used to come back from IBMA with mandolins that just screamed (no matter what the age). In a month or two, they returned to their regular old self, going back to sleep, although they all benefitted from playing.
I could also make a case for the instruments taking on the characteristics of the player's style...but I don't speculate much.

I made an aquarium pump version ... no rheostat. A $20 proof-of-concept experiment that I agree sure didn't hurt, and I believe it helped.

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Dave
Milton, ON

I've been thinking about getting one of those for some time now. For the price and the fact that they sell high used plus the reputation they have garnered from respectable luthiers and players over time seems to be worth a try. I find some of the claims or at least some of the language used to sell these things dubious but we all know that our guitars break in from the moment we put the first set of strings on it so it's got something going on for it whether it's got the science to back it or not.

I have a tone-rite and my results are kinda mixed. Some guitars, there is an obvious affect and it can be noticed clearly. Others, I can put it on them forever and no difference. I don't buy the hype or the advertising, but I cannot deny the improvement in some guitars.

I agree, except that the break-in process starts the moment the tree is felled. What I really wanted to comment on was the "science backing". This likely will never exist, and we will rely on reputable and trusted anectdotal accounts of trusted luthiers.

To construct a scientifically sound expirement to test these devices would be nearly impossible, given the variation between two identically-constructed guitars. (we know that doesn't exist) Now enter the variations of finishes, wood irregularities, changing environmental conditions, etc...Not to mention, how would one quantify or establish a reproducible and consistent end point for "broken-in"?

At best, it would be a subjective, anecdotal summary, which is what we have now.

Dave F

I agree, except that the break-in process starts the moment the tree is felled. What I really wanted to comment on was the "science backing". This likely will never exist, and we will rely on reputable and trusted anectdotal accounts of trusted luthiers.

To construct a scientifically sound expirement to test these devices would be nearly impossible, given the variation between two identically-constructed guitars. (we know that doesn't exist) Now enter the variations of finishes, wood irregularities, changing environmental conditions, etc...Not to mention, how would one quantify or establish a reproducible and consistent end point for "broken-in"?

At best, it would be a subjective, anecdotal summary, which is what we have now.

Dave F

If we could agree on quantifiable parameters this could be effectively tested. It would take a large N as you would need to run many many samples through all of your test and control groups in order to account for the obvious variation from instrument to instrument (especially since there are so many different types of guitars). However. . . that number would be very high considering all the experimental conditions you would need. The gain from having this data would not justify the expense of obtaining it properly.

I agree that there is probably a benefit in some (many?) cases, but there really is no way to know how to optimize your use of these types of devices. I suppose there is very little downside to using them (as long as expectations and claims are tempered).

Whenever I see/hear people (not counting people on fora like this one) talking about these things, I instantly stop taking them seriously. Keep in mind, I am not really even a disbeliever. It is just that it always sounds like conjecture based more in expectation than any systematic observation and testing. I'm always reminded of the stoners I knew in college who would profess all the virtues of marijuana. They always stated "facts" and deductive logic that they passionately believed even if it was rambling and incoherent.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Figures you guys would try to put numbers on it...

Glen, can you make any observations related to your experience, based on the initial tonal quality of the guitars you mention? Specifically, did you notice that average sounding guitars improved more than those that were already better-sounding? Or did the better sounding guitars get even better while the others remained more or less the same after treatment?

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It will probably be alright.

some players i talk to about the tonerite say they would rather "witness" the break in period of their new guitar rather then have the fun of it taken away from them by the builder. others would rather have a gig ready tool that they'll trade in for another as soon as the strings get dirty. the end measurement is really in the ears.

nice video, thanks for posting.

Hi Greg,
Think of what happens the first month or two after you string up a new one. The tone rite does the same, it just happens quicker. Some of them don't change much during this period and those are the ones that don't seem to benefit much from the tone rite. Also, have you ever had a guitar that has to "warm up" when you first play it? I have had a couple that noticeably change after about 30 minutes. These, if you hook up the tone rites for a few minutes will be at that point when you take off the tone-rite.
I use the tone-rite a lot less than I used to. One of the factors is the time of year. During the Winter months, I just don't want to leave a guitar on the stand indoors under central heating. So, I primarily use it to get a newly built guitar to settle in quicker. I build, on average, 1, maybe 2, a year.
When I have put it on guitars that are over a couple of months old and have been played daily, I cannot state that I have ever seen much real difference. Others have, but not me.