Official Luthiers Forum!

Howdy folks,
I bought my son an Esquire strat for Christmas. It hums when the distortion is on. It is so loud that it competes with the actual feed from the pick ups for who is going to be louder. Sam Ash says it is normal. I say it is unacceptable. I have read about how a bad ground could cause the hum. It only hums with certain pick ups turned on. What could be causing the hum and is it normal for a single coil to hum so bad, as Sam Ash's tech claims?
Thanks in advance. I wan to return the guitar if they can not eliminate the hum but they claim it is fine.

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

I'm. I'm no electric expert, but, yeah, kinda sorta, that can be normal. Depends on how much RF your environment has, combined with the shielding of the pu's, as well as potential grounding issues. Noticeably lessened by selector positions 2 and 4 I'd guess.

Having low quality electronics, I wouldn't be surprised if the issue was greater than on guitars with better pickups and such. However, checking the ground would be the first thing I'd look at. Check all the pots carefully for cold solder joints and loose wires.

I'm sure you'll get much better help soon...

positions 2 and 4 are definitely quieter than the others. It is really unacceptably loud when I add distortion. Playing clean is OK. The hum is there, but not as bad.

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

Hum can come from a variety of sources. Some of these can be addressed within the guitar wiring, while others cannot.

1) When you touch the strings, does the noise get quieter, louder, or remain unchanged?

2) What positions are you getting the greatest hum in (I assume you meant a Squier Strat rather than referring to the single pickup Esquire)?

3) Does the hum increase and diminish depending on which direction the guitar is facing?

If your answers are:

1) Quieter,
2) 1,3,&5
3) Yes

- then I'm sorry to say that Sam Ash's appraisal was probably correct. These would indicate that the guitar itself is working as well as most single coil guitars do, and the source of the problems lie in other areas like the amp, household wiring, and ambient electrical noise.

If your answers are:

1) Louder or unchanged
2) Isolated positions or combinations other than the above answer
3) No, or not very much

- then these answers could indicate a few different problems with a few different solutions, which could be narrowed down with a few other tests.

Edit: I see you already answered question 2. My suggestion, take it to a different building and play it through a different amp, see if the problems persist. My guess is that they may diminish significantly.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

It is a Squier strat. I don't have the guitar here at the moment.
My answers are
1. Unchanged
2. 1,3,5
3. Nope.

I tried it in two different amps at Sam Ash and my home amp. At home, it was louder, but not much. In the two amps at Sam Ash, it was still present but not quite as bad as at home. Since my house is old, I suspect the outlet I had the amp plugged into was not grounded, but Sam Ash should have perfect wiring for amps and such, no?

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

Tony, someone posted the same problem here last year concerning a Squier.
The solution was to take it back and swap for another.
I'd check your cable first.
I've used plenty of $10 China pickups and never experienced unaceptable hum.
Best of luck to get that youngster a rockin!

_________________
wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

Sounds to me like you have a bad bridge ground.

Although, I would still expect some change in noise with change in position. Can't rule out a bad electrical ground at the other end of the cable either.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Nothing to add, but Happy New Year Tony! Hope all is well!

Alex

_________________
"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

It's the horrible, wretched cheap single coil pickups. Simple as that. Not a ground problem - it's a CHEAP problem. Taking it back won't solve the problem. Put in some REAL American made humbuckers and you'll be done.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I disagree. Neither the price tag, nor the country of manufacture have any potential to influence this issue. Single coils will be more prone to hum than humbuckers of course, but it appears something else is going on here.

If there is enough electrical noise to come through the pickups this strong, then there should also be a noticeable change in noise when you touch the strings. Of course it should also change significantly when you change position of the guitar - if there is little or no change here, then the grounding issues are likely at the other end of the cable. Amp, pedals (especially if you're using any power adapters), and ultimately the power supply in your house.

Of course if your son wants to play with high levels of distortion, single coils aren't usually cut out for this unless you have excellent control over electrical noise in your environment.

So the noise doesn't lessen when you touch the strings - how about when you touch the control plate or jack housing?

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Hey Tony, I agree with you that it's unacceptable.

I would recommend a cable change or two first.
Next I would bring it back to the store and compare it against another guitar on the same amp.
Suspecting that it may be the guitar as you describe a similar experience in the store.

There is an issue other than "cheap" if your producing such a noise without an overdriven signal.
I'm fairly certain Fender/Squier would tell you it's not normal.

Hopefully you get it sorted out soon so the rockin out can begin! \m/

HNY by the way.

_________________
Wake up and smell the rosewood!

I agree with David -- the problem has nothing to do with country of origin or the cost for that matter. I'd be looking at grounding issues or "lack there" of issues. Changing the switch positions can in affect make two of the three pick-ups sort of a noise cancelling humbucker depending on the wiring, that's why the intensity changes with switch position. Keep in mind that florescent lights (even the compacts) and lighting dimmer switches send out RF that can affect an amp and or the pick-up.

FYI I purchased that same model for my daughter several years ago (she had to have purple) I was pretty amazed how quite it was play through my Ampeg Reverbrocket.

_________________
Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Tony, this make cost a few bucks and take some of your time but I get this problem brought in to my shop all the time with these guitars. Here's what I do:

1. Buy some copper shielding and shield the cavities and back of the PG completely (be sure you have grounding continuity between the pieces).
2. Remove all the grounds from the top of the pots and run them to a single ground location on the PG shielding.
3. Run a shielded wire from the jack to its proper locations.

Here's a pic:



You probably know that in positions 2 & 4 you create a humbucker between coils.

_________________
"I've been had again"
Tim Benware
Creedmoor, NC

Thanks for all of the help everyone. I have not played electric in so long that I really don't remember anything about wiring or why they hum. I will compare the guitar to another one at the store to see if it happens with another one. I will also check if my Charvel hums when I use either of the single coil pick ups by themselves on the same amp, plugged into the same outlet. The Charvel is a much more expensive guitar, so if it hums, which I don't recall it ever doing in the past, then its probably an outlet or ground issue. In any event, my wife is so set on getting the kid a 3/4 size guitar that all of this may be moot as I might be returning the guitar anyway. But it is a pretty sweet looking guitar. It's also very well made as far as I can tell. Other than the hum.
Thanks again everyone. I appreciate you all taking the time to help.

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

what amp you using ? I have a few amps that have a ground switch in the back if not turned to the right position you can havea good bit

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it