Official Luthiers Forum!

There is a very good thread, by Fred, on ceiling mounted air cleaners, and another great thread, by Ken, on constructing a very inexpensive floor/ table top version.

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=45220
viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=45178

Most of the cleaners mentioned, or constructed, filter out the 1 micron and larger particles. As several people have pointed out, the particles <1 micron are the ones that do a lot of respiratory damage, and are most likely to be airborne longer.

I use one of my box fan filters as a sanding station for my pick guards. (I still wear my mask for those pesky .3 micron floaters.) I also run the filters at night, to clean the air of the 1 micron and larger particles.

I want a HEPA filter to compliment my other cleaners. The following is available from Walmart online:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/5130782?wmlsp ... =sem#about

My shop is 12' X 24' X 8'.

Has anyone had experience with this one. I also would like to hear/see what other folks are doing about air cleaners and air purifiers in their shops.

Thanks,

James

I was experiencing some persistent respiratory problems so I ordered this Asept Air 1550 from Costco. Hepa, uv filter, VOC filter, etc and I love how it automatically senses airborne pollutants and adjusts fan speed accordingly. I only installed it two days ago but already can discern a marked improvement.
http://www.asept-air.com/product.php?productid=16




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_________________
Doug

Don't let fear or common sense stop you from trying to build something

Not exactly but my work-around for getting the nasty little particles that only a HEPA rated filer will capture is to use the Festool CT-22 HEPA vac that I bought nearly 10 years ago now. I'm religious about cleaning up my mess at the source and right away too.... hoping that if I never let the dust get into the air I'll worry less about what I am breathing. Besides I get stressed out seeing dirt...

Thanks, Hesh. A HEPA vac is also high on my list. Looks like the CT-22 has been discontinued. The CT-26 is the closest thing to it that I see.

Thing is, any dirt you can see isn't really the problem. The bad stuff behaves more like vapour than grit. If it falls out of the sky, it's heavy enough not to be the basic problem.

So sorry, Hesh, IMO, having a HEPA filter on your vac (as I also do) isn't enough.

As I've mentioned in previous threads and posts, adding a secondary installation of a permanent HEPA filter made a both immediate (well, overnight) and more importantly Very Discernible Difference.

I was getting instant flu like symptoms (hmm, small particulates, anyone?) every time I stepped into my shop. Yes, I wear a good respirator a lot, but I spend usually 10 hours every single day in the shop, and it's not realistic to think they will all be spent behind a respirator.

I'm in the process of doubling/trebling collection/filtering in the shop so maybe I'm a little over enthusiastic about this topic, but, I will summarize by saying that chucking a 100$ HEPA filter running 24/7 made a world of difference, as Doug can attest, and I heartily suggest it to everyone.

Particle Particle Size
(microns)
one inch 25400
dot (.) 615
Eye of a Needle 1230
Glass Wool 1000
Spanish Moss Pollen 150 - 750
Beach Sand 100 - 10000
Mist 70 - 350
Fertilizer 10 - 1000
Pollens 10 - 1000
Cayenne Pepper 15 - 1000
Textile Fibers 10 - 1000
Fiberglass Insulation 1 - 1000
Grain Dusts 5 - 1000
Human Hair 40 - 300
Human Hair 60 - 600
Dust Mites 100 - 300
Saw Dust 30 - 600
Ground Limestone 10 - 1000
Tea Dust 8 - 300
Coffee 5 - 400
Bone Dust 3 - 300
Hair 5 - 200
Cement Dust 3 - 100
Ginger 25 - 40
Mold Spores 10 - 30
Starches 3 - 100
Red Blood Cells 5 - 10
Mold 3 - 12
Mustard 6 - 10
Antiperspirant 6 - 10
Textile Dust 6 - 20
Gelatin 5 - 90
Spider web 2 - 3
Spores 3 - 40
Combustion-related - motor vehicles, wood burning,
open burning, industrial processes up to 2.5
Fly Ash 1 - 1000
Milled Flour, Milled Corn 1 - 100
Coal Dust 1 - 100
Iron Dust 4 - 20
Smoke from Synthetic Materials 1 - 50
Lead Dust 2
Face Powder 0.1 - 30
Talcum Dust 0.5 - 50
Asbestos 0.7 - 90
Calcium Zinc Dust 0.7 - 20
Paint Pigments 0.1 - 5
Auto and Car Emission 1 - 150
Metallurgical Dust 0.1 - 1000
Metallurgical Fumes 0.1 - 1000
Clay 0.1 - 50
Humidifier 0.9 - 3
Copier Toner 0.5 - 15
Liquid Droplets 0.5 - 5
Insecticide Dusts 0.5 - 10
Anthrax 1 - 5
Yeast Cells 1 - 50
Carbon Black Dust 0.2 - 10
Atmospheric Dust 0.001 - 40
Smoldering or Flaming Cooking Oil 0.03 - 0.9
Corn Starch 0.1 - 0.8
[color=#FF0000]Sea Salt 0.035 - 0.5
Bacteria 0.3 - 60
Bromine 0.1 - 0.7
Lead 0.1 - 0.7[/color]
Radioactive Fallout 0.1 - 10
Rosin Smoke 0.01 - 1
Combustion 0.01 - 0.1
Smoke from Natural Materials 0.01 - 0.1
Burning Wood 0.2 - 3
Coal Flue Gas 0.08 - 0.2
Oil Smoke 0.03 - 1
Tobacco Smoke 0.01 - 4
Viruses 0.005 - 0.3
Typical Atmospheric Dust 0.001 to 30
Sugars 0.0008 - 0.005
Pesticides & Herbicides 0.001
Carbon Dioxide 0.00065
Oxygen 0.0005

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

What I take from that is that the finer you can get your particulate collection, the better...

Totally agree -- especially now that we know that some individuals have allergies and sensitivities to some of the stuff listed and other -- sad thing is some people are not aware they have a sensitivity problem/issue and just deal with the symptoms best they can and never eliminate the source.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Indeed. Even though I'm fastidious in a clean shop (if nowhere else), the difference in air quality made by a HEPA filter was nothing short of dramatic...

I'm putting in two cyclones to get the main dust capture down to 99.8 of .02 microns, upgrading my air filter filters to HEPA, and still plan to but more standalone hepa's. Overkill, perhaps, but the more the merrier...

Would putting some water in the bottom of a cyclone collection bucket help any?
I'm thinking along the lines of a rainbow vacuum cleaner.

_________________
Say what you do, Do what you say.

No idea whatsoever...

I have an Austin Air HealthMate. It's a litte spendy but works very well.

Searching for a consumer hepa, it's nearly impossible to find the only 2 specs that really matter; cfm (it only goes downhill once you turn it on) and sq feet of hepa filter(the longer it will last before clogging). They only want to tell you the room size it will work in! And make sure it is true HEPA (US government standard; must remove 99.97% of 0.3 µm)

The Austin has 400 cfm and 60 sq feet of hepa. There is not much comparable. I have it in the "inside" shop, so it's not handling heavy dust. It's no frills, but clears the air fast when I want. All steel frame, made in usa. I don't really need the carbon but who knows, it might help with ca fumes.

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Pat

I ordered the Honeywell 50250-S HEPA air purifier thru Target and I got it Wednesday. It has been running for 2 days now and I think I am really going to like it. I use my shop built box fan/Aprilaire filter for capturing the 1 micron and larger chunks. The Honeywell gets 99.97% of the ones down to .3 microns.

I don't have a HEPA vac, but I have my shop vac double filtered, with a fine dust bag, as well as a cartridge filter. I also vent the vacuum exhaust to the outside, with a hose going thru my shop floor.

When I am sanding pick guards with my drill press rig, I sit the box fan/filter right up against it and also position the vacuum hose right in front of the filter. The vacuum catches most of the dust and the box fan filter catches the dust down to 1 micron. I still wear my mask when I am sanding, since some of those pesky <1 micron particles will be floating around until the Honeywell collects them.



Happy sanding.

James

James,

You mentioned running your filters at night. I do that too (24/7 for the HEPA filter by Hunter). I also installed a ceiling fan in my small shop (8'x21'x9' ceiling) and run it 24/7. That way I am always stirring up the air to cycle thru the HEPA. Then my walking around the shop does not tend to stir up more air and small particles than my fan has already stirred up.

I have a Festool HEPA vac that has a Dust Deputy before it to get a lot of the stuff and extend the life of the Festool filters.

I also have a ClearVue 5HP dust collector that I work hard to collect the dust at the sources including the drill press for drilling and drum sanding, a downdraft sanding table, a routing table, etc.

A key piece of equipment is my Dylos air quality monitor. This tells me what's really going on the air.

Ed

Thanks, Ed.

I checked out the Dylos monitor. Very nice piece of equipment.