Official Luthiers Forum!

Do you sell or give away your guitars?

I have completed 10 and given a few away, to a friend, to my brother and my wife. Otherwise, I still have the others and am working on 3 more. My wife says we're running out of space... Also, I keep spending money on wood and parts. I am hooked and I have received positive feedback at music stores I have brought them to. One of the stores offered to sell them on consignment for 20%. The other store said they had no room, but said that I should have no trouble selling them (neither store was Guitar Center).

I really don't know how to sell them, and after all I build because I love to and not to make money. I am retired and fortunately don't need the income. Of course, a little walkin' around money could be nice...

My wife wanted me to ask how many guitars the forum members still have. (I get attached to mine...)

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

I am the same, give them away. People have told me I should try and sell but that is not why I do it.
If I had to sell there would be pressure to complete on time, conform to what someone else may want, worry about warranty, be concerned with every little wart or flaw and so on.
Hats off to the guys that can make living doing it, but I already have a job and don't want another.
This is therapy, relaxation and pretty cool when you give one to some unexpecting recipient.
Fortunately I have not needed to purchase many tools and I always find nice bits of wood during the course of my day job.

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My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.

Speaking for what I have done in the past - both! I gave three away, two very well placed, one mistake on my part but no regrets.

Check out what Terry Kennedy does, that's a great model in my view. He sells though a decent store and I believe it's worked out well for him.

I went a different route the "bring the virgin to the brink" route (don't blame me that exact phrase exists in university level text books as a strategy for selling wares). More specifically I opened repair business(s) and simply hung my stuff in view. Invariably someone coming or going would ask if they could try it. Next they came back with the wife and next I was cashing a check. Easy peezy - sold a lot of them this way and with no marketing effort on my part. No expensive, lonely shows, no paid for memberships to FBBS web sites (fan boy b*ll s**t) web site where everyone is jockeying for position and paying heavily for the privilege.... Me, I'm not opinionated.... But the point is that if your venue for sales is such that you can't swing a cat without hitting another Luthier go somewhere else... Please don't turn me in to PETA either....

Something else that I did differently than most is I never wanted to do commissions and actually refused them more times that I can count. Why? Because for me as a life long marketing and sales executive from corporate America I know in advance that selling "futures" is dicey for all. By futures I mean we have no idea how well it will turn out, what it will sound like, etc. - it's still only as real as the vision of the maker and the desires, hopefully of the client. Lots of room for disappointment or issues with mutual expectations. There is also the issue of deposits, time to complete, life changing events such as job loss with the client, etc. that can make commissions in my view not very reliable. YMMV.

There is also the idea of complete artistic freedom, something that was very important to me to retain.

Steve I've watched your work with interest over some years now and if you are asking if you are ready - hell yes!!! You also would be surprised at just how superior many OLFers instruments have had the opportunity to be over f*ctory instruments because of the nature of the material that we have been exposed to over the years. Or, in other words, many forum members who have been participating a long time and building all the while likely can build in my view superior to what we see from f*ctories.

I always also advise folks to have a parasitic relationship with your competition or more specifically attend some shows, see what other builders are doing and how well their stuff stacks up. In 2007 I attended Healdsburg and came away from that show sure that my chops were at least equal to half the builders there. It was an eye opener for me and let me know that my vision of perfection was beyond what many successful builders who sell their stuff are subscribing to. Not being critical, far from it, it was simply an eye opener to me to see what some folks let out of their shops.... The bar is not as high as you might think.

Also I wanted to mention that I have made some great friends too from selling guitars and a week end does not go by that I am not invited somewhere to hear one of mine playing out. I've also been embarrassed and pointed out as the one who built this or that guitar to the audience AND had to get on stage a few times too.....

Lastly at the end of the day the only way to really shed some light on how well your stuff will hold up is to get it out there and get it to folks who play frequently, perhaps play out, car trunks, RH swings, etc. all can provide valuable data to us but only when we let our stuff experience the real world.

You're ready Steve my friend if this is what you want to do. Do it your way though, what ever makes you happy because after all nothing and no one should ever be permitted to rain on your Lutherie parade!

PS: I also think that you have a great artist's eye as well and have always enjoyed looking at your guitars!

An idea i had for my future builds (qaulity dependant) was to try to sell to cover the cost of materials but add on a profit to give to a charity ..ebay or an auction site of some sort would be great for this as starting price can cover the materials and then give anything above this to charity.
Would love to give all the money to charity but dont have enough spare money for future builds. Not sure if hand built guitars sell on ebay though

Hi Steve,
I have a few instruments consigned to a local art gallery. Occasionally one sells. I have tried music stores without much luck - the instruments come back shop worn and dinged up.
Try building other types of instruments. I have better luck selling dulcimers, ukes, octave mandolins, and other less commercial offerings than guitars. It is harder for the enthusiast to find high quality "fringe instruments" at reasonable prices than high quality factory guitars.
For most of us amateurs selling is the least enjoyable part of our hobby.

An art gallery is an interesting concept... Seems like folks in a gallery would want to hang it on the wall. I want my guitars to be beautiful but be played by someone... Other instruments are okay, but since I'm a guitar player, I really only have an interest in building guitars... All types of guitars...

Hesh, thanks for the kind words. I have also admired your work and your praise means a lot. One of the shops I went to is SoundPure in Durham. I believe another OLFer has sold there ( I can't remember who.). They offered to sell my L-00 (you might remember it) and suggested I start the price at $3000. I was impressed by that since I'm not a recognized luthier. I told them I wasn't ready yet. I wanted to play my baby some more. Since then I've competed an OM, have a OOO 12 fret w/ Venetian cutaway ready for finish, a round shoulder dread and tele on my bench. It's starting to look like a guitar warehouse around here...

BTW - the SoundPure guys recommended that I have a website for marketing purposes. I've worked on one and here is the link. I know it can be much better. I haven't worked on it in a while...

http://swiftcreekguitars.weebly.com

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

Hi Steve,

I have completed 26, purely a hobby for me.
All but 3 I have given away, and for the other three I was compensated for materials only.
I am now in the same quandary - all of my kids and relatives now have lovely guitars....
I have 3 more I am just finishing up and for the first time, none of them have a home...
Selling just isn't in the cards - I don't want the warranty hassles when some dufus leaves in in 20% humidity... common around here in the winter.
In fact - 4 of my first 10 imploded into expensive kindling.... mostly because i built the boxes in the summer at 60% - I know better now - I keep my shop between 35 and 45% in the winter for building the boxed and finish the necks and do the finishing in the summertime.
Sorry, I don;t have any advice, just offering some empathy...

Like Robbie_McD I've given away most of my 30+ builds. Mind you, these are all ukuleles, so I have less than USD 50 invested in each one, particularly as I like to recycle wood.

I'd say I now build well enough to sell at a decent price (for ukes) but I won't for a number of reasons:

1. My day job makes me rich enough to have money left over each month, and I don't want to take business away from my friends whose full time job this is.

2. Ukes are cheap - even though it's 40 hours work or so for me to build one, USD 400 would be seen as moving into expensive territory. USD 10 per hour is around minimum wage here, so I'd feel exploited. As it is, my ukes are literally priceless.

3. Commissions are quite stressful. I've undertaken a couple, but on the strict understanding that they are finished when they are finished, they turn out how they turn out (no complaints), and as they are not being paid for the only option is to take or reject them. No rejections so far, but the recipients' expectations have been lowered as far as possible. Even so, building to someone else's requirements imposes quite a lot of pressure.

4. If you can afford it, there is a real buzz in giving them away. Three years ago I made a stupid uke entirely from Western Red Cedar (except for the fretboard), just to see if I could do it. It was a bear to bend, and the neck was horrid to carve, but I learnt quite a lot from doing it. The raffle winner tells me he plays it a lot and it's one of his favourite ukes.

I can't say what I'll do once I retire and my income drops, but I'm pretty sure that if I do sell it will be spec builds only and sold by word of mouth.

Giving them away is no problem - uke players are oddballs, and therefore clump together for reassurance and support, so there are plenty of festivals and raffles which need prizes.

I really think your question is something you'll have to decide for yourself. But if you do want to sell some of them I would recommend Mandolin Brother's or Elderly -- both have been handling consignments on a grand scale for a very long time. I've never done consignments with Elderly but have made a few trades along the way and was always treated very fairly.

I think you have to put your guitars in the hands of the players that might be interested, here's the reality, I just Googled "Hand Made guitars for sale" ---- 765,000 hits!

And side bar for Hesh --- walk ins + consignment area (seems to) = profit center --- just a thought. Years ago I considered opening a book store mainly because cost of inventory was basically zero, since the publishers were "allowed" to place their goods on the racks and shelves for a fee.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

"An art gallery is an interesting concept... Seems like folks in a gallery would want to hang it on the wall. I want my guitars to be beautiful but be played by someone..."
From what I have been able to determine most of them go to players. They are often bought as gifts, sometimes after the person has admired the instrument and played it in the gallery. It is my belief that good instruments eventually wind up in the hands of good players. Not so good instruments wind up as wall hangers. But there are exceptions I am sure.

"since I'm a guitar player, I really only have an interest in building guitars... All types of guitars."

There are a lot of different types of guitars. Building some of the more unique ones might help you find a market as well as provide a challenge to keep things interesting.
But to each their own way of doing things. I mostly build what I want, when I want, and selling is a secondary concern.

Hesh's post echos a lot of my feelings.

For me getting involved with The Podium in Minneapolis (http://www.thepodium.com) was the best thing I ever did. Many of the staff were professional musicians and had been involved in high end acoustic retail for many years.

Their endorsement on their website gave instant credibility and their advice was critical in my evolution as a builder. We continue to have a wonderful relationship. Most of the top players in the Twin Cities frequent the store and I have gotten to know many and obtain honest critiques. I have been with them 9 years now.

Pick the wrong store and it can be a nightmare.

I did commissions for quite a while but eventually evolved to just selling off the wall. That works best in my situation being 70 years old and retired. I don't need the stress, I can build what I want, and sales have been great. I am not convinced that commissioning an instrument is always the best route to take.

Part of evolving as a builder as Hesh said, is getting your guitars out in the real world and seeing how they hold up. There will be surprises and that will impact your building style for the better. You want them to sell so price accordingly. For a new builder I would say mid to lower 20's, certainly not over 3K, at least in our area, if you want to move them. The store can help you price them as they know the trends in the region.

Good luck!

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I mostly do it for my own satisfaction in solving the problem of a repair, pleasing a picky client, and the pure act of creating a functional object of art. But I've never given them away.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Steve you and I are in the same area and I have no problem selling mine, in fact I can't keep up with the demand. We are in a great market. My builds are booked to March.

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"I've been had again"
Tim Benware
Creedmoor, NC

If you are looking to sell then having a current presence on Facebook and Instagram helps people who know of you to 'share' you with others. I've only sold 4 so far but I have another 6 serious tire kickers and most of them have come through friend of a friend of a friend, etc, via FB or Instagram.

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Doug

Don't let fear or common sense stop you from trying to build something

I give them away. Like Olympians of old, I value my amateur status.

[Edit] In response to your wife's question, I have four of my own creation hanging around here.

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George :-)

Lots of good advice.

One more thing: If you do sell be fair to yourself and none of this materials plus $10 stuff that some beginners do. You have a good body of work and in my view know what you are doing and then some. As such you provide real value and folks would be "lucky" to snag one of yours so my advice to you is to sell for what they are really worth and to me that means $3K or more each.

Folks who sell for less should do what ever they want but I don't agree with that business model and here's why.

1) It devalues the industry for other builders.... by setting the stage that hand built, one of a kind instruments can be had for a song. That should not be the case and I don't want to support that. I'm not speaking of new builders building for friends or family but established builders who sell for nearly nothing.... or far below industry norms.

2) When we give them away when and if something goes south well, it was given away and the obligation to fix the thing when we are now 95 years old can in my view be shirked off because the client never really paid anything for it. No money exchanged no warranty provided.

Conversely when we sell and take the money of others including their trust it's my view that we have to support the instrument going forward at very nearly all costs or die trying. When you get an appropriate amount for your hard work that's easier to understand and accomplish. When you get very little you may feel differently about someone nagging you 20 years out....

3) The very first impression that any prospective buyer will have of your value proposition, what you offer and for how much, will be the impression, hopefully, that you want them to have. If you position yourself as cut-rate that's likely to be how your "brand" is perceived and who would want to go there?

4) We all have to be honest with ourselves as well and if being commercial is your goal business rules kick in and so too does cost accounting. Even at $3K some of us are only getting .99 cents an hour for our trouble.....

I've never seen this mentioned before on the forum but at gatherings that I've been at there is talk about the low ballers and the belief is that they are not representing the industry, or expectations correctly. Again my belief is everyone should do what ever they wish but I am also very aware that there is a camp consisting of folks who make their living building who do not appreciate low ballers. Something to consider.

My other thought is that a collection of hand made guitars or guitars in general is not considered clutter -Having them is cases however, is a PITA - I'd set up a room with proper humidification --- display them and enjoy them. Vince Gill's collection and display rack comes to mind. $.02

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

I say give away some, sell a few if you can and enjoy the process...
just a thought, but if Gibson or Taylor or Martin were to discourage 'low-balling' of prices to each other or other builders, it wouldn't be too long until the FTC or some other governmental agency was hollering some violation of trade practices...
price fixing...
If you are going to sell a product or a service, specifically a guitar, I believe you should be able to charge whatever the market will bear ... there shouldn't be any group or individual shaming you into higher priced compliance because of what the bigger boys are able to command..

There is a real satisfaction, not only in selling a handmade guitar, but also providing one for free, to an individual who might never be able to afford one.... a video recently shown here on the forum of a very talented lady, playing the heck out of a real junker guitar in Africa comes to mind...

I build mine on request from future owners, who get them at some margin above material cost (I am still a hobbyist). I tell them up front that the guitar will get done when it gets done - I am way too busy at real job and sometimes go months without thinking about the shop (like now). The low price hopefully compensates for the urge to get the guitar in a timely fashion.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

I'm a hobbyist, and I build what I want when I want. When they're finished, if I'm satisfied with them, they are for sale. I don't advertise, except posting photos on FB.
Most of mine have gone to family or friends, but I have done a couple of commissions and sold one on consignment in a small music store.
I've built about 20, and I still have 3 of them. One may be for sale later, but it needs work on the playability before it's good enough for me to sell.

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

I object!

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I build mine to give away. I'm retired and this is my release; I really don't need the money to make ends meet (I do feel fortunate). I'm finishing number 11 (need to attach the bridge). Kept the 1st two (although a couple of my friends liked them); they just weren't good enough to give away. Others have gone to a brother-in-law (wife's brother), his significant other (both musicians), sister-in-law (my younger brother doesn't play) and have two others for another brother-in-law (wife's side) and one for my twin brother (doesn't play but his kids do). So I guess I have 5 left, but one of grandkids wants the ambrosia maple. I have used a different tonewood on each one (zebrawood, african mahogany, leopard wood, sycamore, walnut, spanish cedar, quilted maple, mahogany, bocote, padauk). Have started work on 3 more (white oak, spalted sycamore, and persimmon). I build what I like, when I like with no guarantees. Suppose I wouldn't mind selling one if I thought they were good enough once I run out of relatives and friends. Wouldn't want the pressure of building on commission. I need to up my game before I would want to sell one, especially my level of finish. Don't have my overflow in cases and my wife hasn't objected yet (fortunately she doesn't know how many sets of tonewood I have in my stash). I like to collect the various tonewoods, by last count I have 50 different species with duplicates of many of them. Unfortunately, I think I have more tonewood than time.

You and me both. I have enough for me, and for the entire career of the next person who buys up the shop when I'm gone, it feels like.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

I have made 12 electrics, given 9 away to family and friends.
I'm working on 2 more for cousins, and then I guess I'll quit.
I ran out of family and friends that play.

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

Ahh, umm, we're kind of friends, aren't we, Dan? hehehe

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker