Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi gang. it's been a while since I have posted. I started a new business in personal financial planning and I've been up to my ears in all that that entails. Going well, though.

Have any of you used black walnut as fretboard material? I want to build a guitar out of almost entirely local (northeast US) woods, for a benefit, and that is available. I know it's not as hard as, say, ebony, but I like the look. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Corky Long

too soft .. use maple ...

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

I believe the Gibson "North American Hardwood" series have Walnut finger boards and Ovation used/uses Walnut for bridges and fingerboards.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

It works fine. I do it all the time with ukuleles and have done a few guitars with it. What I have found though is that the frets tend to not stay down without a little glue.

I have a 60's Kay acoustic with a walnut fingerboard that is pretty worn out. It's so bad, it needs to be replaced - the rest of the guitar is in much better shape. I personally, would find an alternative to walnut.

You might check with Bob Cefalu to see if he has any more Persimmon bridges and fingerboards. It is a light weight ebony and makes a nice bridge plate also. The only downside is the color - it's white.

I'm glad the new business is working out and it's good to hear from you again.

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John Lewis
Wannabe builder owned by 2 crazy dachshunds

Might be an idea to use CA as a pore fill and surface hardener. I just used Walnut for a nylon guitar, I can see steel strings taking their toll on it. Depends on how much and how you plan to play on it I guess.

What about a couple of coats of epoxy as a filler on the walnut, then sand back to bare wood. Would the epoxy in the grain help prevent wear?

Ed

I've not used it but it seems like it might be a little soft for a steel string. there have to be plenty local woods that would work. Obviously hard maple, white oak could work. Do you have persimmon? I don't suppose Osage orange grows nearby but black or honey locust would be a good substitute. I think with most of the alternatives, color will be the biggest issue; you could either dye it or factor the color into the scheme and lacquer it.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

IMHO walnut is too soft.
Sugar maple or hornbeam are local NE US woods that are hard enough. They are naturally light in color, but they can be dyed. Persimmon and black locust are hard native woods I have used and dyed black.
Osage orange is another very hard wood that works well. It is not native to that part of the country, but it has been widely planted for fence rows.
If you are not restricted to the Northeast, the best native wood I have found for fingerboards is Texas ebony, which grows around the southern tip of Texas. It is extremely hard, dark in color, and has very small pores.

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John

I've used black walnut for a dulcimer, it worked but it is pretty soft. It's hard to fret it without pushing the frets into the wood and it simply won't last as long as the harder woods. Bastogne walnut is a hybrid that grows in California and will work ok, I've got it on one guitar. I would have to agree with John - for a native (to US) hard wood with great color Texas ebony would do the trick.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I use walnut all the time on dulcimers, but feel it's too soft for a guitar.

I've used several different substitutes; generally persimmon, but also Rock maple, American hornbeam and soft shell almond. The almond looks very much like cherry, but brown rather than red, and it's hard as a brick (well, you know...). It won't take any of the stains I tried on it. I've used a walnut hull 'tea' to stain the others and it works pretty well. I get black walnut hulls, and boil them up to get the color, which is the same as the color in the wood. In use I like to bind the light fingerboards with walnut, to avoid the need to stain the edges. A few coats of the stain wiped on wil get you close enough to the walnut color to obscure the binding. At the same time, the stain is transparent enough to show the grain, which can be quite striking on hornbeam. Beech should also work well, although I have not tried it, and I've got some Black locust seasoning.

Tom Thiel, of Northwind Tonewoods, has been working on a process that dyes a fingerboard black all the way through. The chemistry has been problematic, and they're chasing down the details of that. When it works you can get a persimmon fingerboard that is jet black right through. He's talked about offering bindings, bridge blanks, and head veneers to match. I've used it a couple of times, and it should be a good solution if he can get it right.

Lie-Nielsen uses hornbeam for chisel handles. It seems to be pretty tough stuff, and it is local for the Northeast US. If you can figure out a way to get the color right, it might work pretty well for a fingerboard.

When you say "soft," in what ways? Granted, individual samples can be all over the map, but walnut generally falls between maple and locust for density and janka. It was mentioned that gluing frets might be necessary, and a CA or epoxy treatment might be wise, but does it lack stiffness?

Stiffness should be fine. It's the surface hardness/wear resistance that's the problem... strings and fingernails wearing divots in the board. Though jumbo frets could help, by keeping the strings and nails up away from the wood most of the time.

Most maples are indeed softer than black walnut (1010 Janka hardness), but sugar maple is 1450, and that's what everyone is referring to.

I agree with Fred. Whether to use walnut or not depends on how much you expect the guitar to be played, and how many years you're hoping to get out of it before replacing the fingerboard.

Yanked a worn . b walnut FB from 60/s harmony arch top .I luv walnut . Other native woods locust persimmon. OO, tx ebony. a. hornbeam , and if you can get it fom AZ or ca desert ironwood dark brown , hvy brown /blk /straw streaks.