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Hi everyone - I was hoping for some advice on machinery.

Background: I'm currently setting up a new, permanent workshop after several years of building guitars in various temporary locations. I've moved around a lot in various rental properties and so deliberately kept my collection of machinery small as it's a pain to move. Recently bought a home with a detached barn for use as a workshop and can finally acquire larger machinery without worrying about having to pack it up and move it in the near future.

This post relates specifically to the utility of a full-size tablesaw/cabinet saw for luthiery.

I've always had a notion that I need a tablesaw. I've survived without one so far, however this has required me to perform all ripping operations with handtools - a handsaw for the cut and a handplane to true the cut surfaces and square things up. This is OK but can really slow me down at times, especially when ripping a chunk of spruce down into a lot of bracing. I'd love to spend more time building guitars and less time in stock preparation.

I already have an older 14" bandsaw. It's not much of a machine and struggles to properly tension any blade wider than 1/4". Spent a lot of time on it, new bearings, tyres, guides, set-up but it was a mediocre unit when new and it's still a mediocre unit today. The thin blade makes it very difficult to get a straight cut in thicker stock. So I have it set up as a dedicated curve-cutting station and am happy to keep it set up like this for use cutting out tops and backs, roughing out the heel shape from neckblanks etc.

I finally have the room to add a tablesaw, but it occurs to me that it might not be the best use of my dollars and floorspace. The strengths of a traditional cabinet saw seem to me to relate to handling large stock - ripping plywood sheets or wide boards for furniture building. I'm wondering if my money would be better spent on a large, high-quality bandsaw with a nice fence that can tension a wide blade.

Here's the currently-manual operations I'm looking to start doing by machine, if possible:

1. Rip bracing stock - I would love to be able to set a machine up and rip bracing stock accurately and in bulk. It would save so much time to have a pile of 1/4" and 5/8" braces ready to grab and use as required. I imagine I could prepare a year's worth of bracing at a time if I was set up right. At the moment it's cut with handsaw, measure with calipers, plane a bit, measure, plane etc to get accurately to thickness.

2. Preparing neck blanks from rough stock. I already have a jointer. If I could just joint one edge and then rip accurately parallel to that edge it would really speed the process of preparing neck blanks from rough-sawn boards.

3. Cut scarf joints - I would love to have a selection of miter-slot jigs set for different headstock angles to make this a no-brainer. Currently I lay out with a sliding bevel, cut with a tenon saw and clean up with a plane - effective but slow. I can see how time could be saved here with a jig and an accurate machine.

Does the above list justify bringing a large tablesaw into the shop? A large bandsaw seems an attractive alternative as takes up less space and would also give me the capability to resaw for backs/sides/soundboards in future. There's also a part of me which feels safer around a bandsaw than a tablesaw.

I'm mainly concerned about the relative accuracy of a large bandsaw vs a tablesaw for straight-line cutting. If I put my money into a quality 16" or 18" bandsaw, a good fence system and a 3/4" blade, will I be able get decently accurate cuts, reliably parallel to the fence?

All advice would be greatly appreciated!

PS. Also open to alternative suggestions - could a small benchtop contractor saw work? I tend to shy away from mobile 'carpentry' style tools for workshop use, but maybe I'm unfairly biased.

Bandsaw.

Bandsaw and compound sliding miter saw

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Big tablesaw is nice for building your cabinets and stuff, but most of what we do is small part cutting.

I used my Bosch contractor saw for a lot of jobs, brace cutting included. All the things you mentioned.

Recently, we added a laguna 14SUV to the shop. Since then, the tablesaw is used only for two things. It's set up with a dado for cutting x brace laps and truss rod slots. The laguna with a 1" blade does all straight cuts now.

Still, I wouldn't want to be without it. But I don't think you need a big industrial tablesaw.

Do you make your own jigs?
You can't get the same level of accuracy cutting straight and parallel on a band saw as you can on the table saw. Cutting feet slots in a table saw wins on the table saw too.
Eventually you'll want both.... I definitely use my table saw more then my band saw but I wouldn't want to be without either of them.


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Depends on your budget. Do you own a jointer? How about a thickness snader? If so, I vote bandsaw. But if you can afford it get both!

Budget bandsaws are frustrating, as you know. Generaly speaking the bigger the better for bandsaws, where as a 10" cabinet saw is pretty much standard. Bandsaws also get big quick. Think about the difference in mass between a 14" bandsaw and a 30" saw. For guitar building I wouldn't want any less than a 16" saw. I just sold a 16" saw the other day and it served me well. For ripping braces to resawing sides and backs, it did the trick. I mentiond a jointer, to me this is critical with a bandsaw because it can cut the sanding time in half if you joint between cuts.

However, tablesaws are realtively cheap in comparison. Unisaws can be scored for a song if you watch the right venues. To me the tablesaw is far more precise than the bandsaw. I tend to use it more for miters, crosscuts and other odd cuts that need to be really precise. I like to cut the x-brace joint on the tablesaw, its super easy, fast, and comes out perfect every time. Fretting as mentioned above is a tablesaw win as well. But ffor me, most of the guitar related ripping is done on the bandsaw. Most guitar parts I make are usually ripped pretty thin. Not only is it easier and often safer to cut on the bandsaw, its a lot smaller kerf loss.

I lived without a table saw for a long time (just a small bandsaw). but ever since i got a small contractor table saw, I use it all the time. So. I'd say; get a better 14" or bigger and a small tsaw.

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Pat

Thanks for all the great input and advice everyone.



I just recently got a jointer and I've had a thickness sander for a while, so cleaning the cut faces shouldn't present a problem. I presume you are saying basically that I won't be getting a particularly smooth cut from the bandsaw, in the same way I might with a tablesaw and a fine-tooth blade? Would I be looking at further processing of components after each cut? That might eat into the efficiency gains a little, I guess.



If I go the bandsaw route, with no tablesaw at all, I'd try and get the biggest I could afford. Something that will hopefully last me for many years without requiring further upgrade.



I do, and that's a good point which I hadn't really thought about much, thanks.




On the small table-saw front, it seems like there is not much difference in price between a high-end Bosch (or similar) site saw and a mid-level traditional contractor saw on an open stand. Any particular reason why I should go with one style over the other? I presume the site saws are more portable but the contractor saws are a bit more stable.

Tablesaw first, I like and use my bandsaw a lot. I have a 1950 Delta 14" with a 2hp Baldor motor its nice my next big tool is going to be a 18" Mini max saw, resaw city

You answered your own question regarding the contractor saw vs portable, but there's also the fact that the contractor saw can be upgraded with a larger motor where as the portable saw is usually a direct drive motor. The contractor saw can also be serviced and will last you a longer time (should anyway).

One thing with the portable saw though is that you can build it into a bench to make for a larger work surface. I guess you could remove the contractor saw from the stand and do the same thing though....

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Having been a professional woodworker for close to 30 years, I never thought I could do without a table saw. I currently have 3, an 8.5' slider for sheet goods, a nice general cabinet saw, and the portable bosch which you have the photo of.
Until I started building guitars I only had a cheap 14" bandsaw. I purchased a large 17" 5 hp grizzly and find myself using it more and more. Were I only making guitars I know I could do away with the table saw. The big band saw will handle pretty much everything the cabinet saw will do. Bandsaw blades will end up costing double to buy new and 4-5 times more to resharpen.
But then again, both is always nice.
My name is Brian, I'm a toolaholic.

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My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.

Rod brings up a great point about fret slotting.

I bought the Bosch a long time ago when it was clearly superior to the other stuff available at the time. The dewalts are just as good now and cheaper. We bought one just for fret slotting and cutting purflings. The Bosch in my room is mounted on sliders for easy access and ducted in...


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I find the bandsaw / jointer / bandsaw / thickness sander work flow more efficient. My jointer and bandsaw are next to each other. When I batch out parts, say solid linings, its easier to joint the edge clean then rip at the bandsaw and then back to the jointer and so on. That yeilds me a batch of parts with essentailly a finnished face and a rough face. Then off to the thickness sander where I only have to clean up one side. I'm sure other people do it differntly, my main point is that with these three tools you can process stock to the same quality as cuts off the table saw while taking advantage of the thin kerf of the bandsaw. I much prefer a full 10" cabinet saw. Excelent quality older used cabinet saws (unisaws, 66's ) go for about the same price as a nice jobsite or contractor saw.

Ed, I see you're getting good use out of your table saw

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"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Bandsaw. Portable or table top table saw if you are short on cash or space. For building guitars you can get away with a cheap table saw (though clearly not as nice, but works). I did so for years. The biggest issue is cutting sheet goods for jigs, but a rail and circular saw can help that some. I owned the $500 Bosch ... it was decent. I had a $150 Jet table top too, which was ok. Nothing beats a good table saw, though, but frankly you'll work it out just fine with a small table saw if that's all you can afford or have space for.

Andy

The real point you may be coming to is that none of us can tell you what is best for you, we can only give our opinion and share what we've found is best for us. I could easily live without my bandsaw but I'm glad I have it, but I'd easily give it up over my table saw...

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I'd go big on the bandsaw and light on the table saw. By far, I use my band saw way more. With a big bandsaw, you can do a lot of table saw activities given the right blade. That said, I like my table saw. But I'm glad when I can figure out how to NOT use it.

Rod, sorry for being contrary. Table saws scare me. Not sure why a serious 1 TPI hooked tooth, 1.25" carbide bandsaw blade does not create the same kind of fear. It should. No amount of SawStop technology gonna make that thing disappear in the event of a bad choice.

I like a bandsaw mostly because they are relatively quiet, the dust gets sucked up and the wood don't blow out on the other side much. I never use a table saw at all. I would rather have a decent router table set-up for truss rod slotting. If your doing fret slotting the table saw would be the way to go for that. Your spot on with the bandsaw that the table locks down good and it has a nice solid fence system. The one I have, a Craftsman, can move if you have to push hard on it, and it causes the the cut to wander. You get what you pay for I guess.

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Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601

You have to have a bandsaw for this work but I use my delta unisaw every day.

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Michael F Smith
Goat Rock Ukulele
http://goatrockukulele.com

I never use my table saw anymore except for fret slotting and crosscutting really wide (12"+) stock with a sled. I've heard countless pro luthiers say their table saws are excellent dust collectors but good for little else.

Good quality used machinery seems to be going cheap these days. If you keep your eyes out you may find both machines (used) for less than the price of either one (new).
A unisaw can have a smaller footprint than a contractor saw (no motor hanging out the back), and can be built into a workbench island or put on wheels and wheeled into a corner when not in use. A good 14 inch bandsaw is all you need for lutherie, unless you want to do significant amounts of resawing.

Thanks again for all the info, guys. Really appreciate it.



That's a nice set-up! Dust is another thing I'm thinking a lot about at the moment. I'm sick of dragging my dust collector from machine to machine... or sometimes not hooking it up due to lack of convenience. Permanent workshop means I can finally put in some duct and get things happening properly. My lungs certainly would appreciate it. One of the reasons I'm questioning whether I can get by without a tablesaw is because I have already decided that powerful, quality dust extraction is mandatory. So a large part of the machinery budget is going towards that.



Point taken. I'll definitely keep my ear to the ground for decent used stuff where possible.



This is what I do currently. I've performed the carpentry on the new workshop using this system and a couple sawhorses - cutting plywood sheets for interior walls, trimming down doors to fit etc. Tablesaw would have sped things up a bit, for sure, but I will say the circular saw/straight edge method does feel very safe and controllable to me, which I like.



Absolutely. I guess it will inevitably be a case of try something and change later if required. Machines can always be sold etc. But the information I'm getting about the accuracy of larger bandsaws (and smaller tablesaws) is really invaluable, I have very limited experience with any bandsaw larger than a 14".

Thanks again everyone for your input.

I really don't use my Unisaw any more for guitar building.
I have a 24" Laguna with a 1"Lenox carbide woodmaster and a 15" Canadian made Genaral.
When I make braces on the big saw, they come off as clean as the tablesaw,only much safer-no chance of kickback.
A quick pass through the wide belt and were off to the races......

If I had to have only one saw it would be the bandsaw over my tablesaw. I feel it's more versatile. Many of the cuts I do on a tablesaw I can manage on my bandsaw. I do have a tablesaw and it's only one of these portable contractor type saws. Good enough for when I might be making a furniture piece. I push to the side since I don't have enough room to leave it in the middle of the floor.

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Another day, another dollar.

Yep, spend the dough on DC. Part of the plan with my shop Reno was putting in a 5hp Oneida. Only 200$ more than the 3 hp. Overkill for the size of my shop, but boy does it move air!