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 Post subject: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:15 pm 
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First name: Bob
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Just curious if anyone has had success with using commonly available polyurethane/catalyzed poly from industrial suppliers like Sherwin Williams, or automotive suppliers, or others as opposed to companies that sell specialized instrument finish material. Not trying to get cheaper finish, it's just that here in Hawaii it is impossible, or extremely expensive due to Hazmat shipping to get any of the cool specialized stuff that is available on the Mainland. Having sprayed nitro for 40 years on my acoustic instruments, I am now looking for a different finish that I can use on some lap steels. A faster curing, slightly harder, faster pore filling, finish than nitro. Lap steels are somewhat of a lower end instrument dollar wise, and although I enjoy making them, I can't reasonably put the time into them doing the nitro finishes I normally do. I do like a filled pore finish, so I don't care for the various oil finishes even though they can be fast and easy. Just shopping for ideas. Thanks, Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:33 am 
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I have used PPG DCU 2021 Concept clear for years with good results.

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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:52 am 
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Koa
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Maybe try an oil based floor varnish? if you can still get them. A lot of it is going over to low VOC's. Keep the finish thin and I'm pretty sure it will be OK.


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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:20 am 
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Thanks for the replies. Brian, what have you used that PPG on? No checking on wood? Thanks, Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:46 pm 
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Brian,
Don't want to be a pest but I'm also very interested in the PPG product also. Would love to know the pore filler and base coat you used with it.

And I assume you level sanded and buffed it to a nice gloss?

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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:04 pm 
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You guys on the Mainland lucky! Here's what we have to deal with on planet Hawaii. I did a web search for PPG products and sure enough there was a local dealer. Great! I called and ask if they had DCU2021. Took the guy several minutes to come back and say no. I asked him if they had any other poly. After a couple of minutes he came back again and said "Well, we have Deft". Not much available here.

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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:38 am 
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Do you have a General Finishes supplier locally?

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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:16 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Deft? where did you call? Never talked to a body shop supplier that carried deft.... PPG DCU2021 is a high end automotive re-finish clear used mainly on hot rods,lowriders and such. Call your local auto re-finish suppliers.

I have used this on lot's of guitars electric and acoustic with great results. This is a 2 part urethane and compares well with the IC&S
industrial product that PRS has used for years.

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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:22 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joe Beaver wrote:
Brian,
Don't want to be a pest but I'm also very interested in the PPG product also. Would love to know the pore filler and base coat you used with it.

And I assume you level sanded and buffed it to a nice gloss?


I run it over the same filler/sealer package I used at the time which would have included a vinyl sealer of some type over the filler. Key here is prep work, it's a mechanical bond....

Product is designed to be cut and buffed to a flawless mirror shine though it is harder to buff out on a conventional arbor than some other types of finish.

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http://www.brianhowardguitars.com
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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:52 pm 
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Thanks Brian. I helped a friend build a solid body base. He used PPG Shop Line to finish it. We never could get much shine out it on the buffing wheel. I suspect that the product you used was superior.

Thanks for the info

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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:43 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joe Beaver wrote:
Thanks Brian. I helped a friend build a solid body base. He used PPG Shop Line to finish it. We never could get much shine out it on the buffing wheel. I suspect that the product you used was superior.

Thanks for the info


Shopline is a low end finish designed for more off the gun spot repair and panel replacement in the body shop. Concept clear (2021) was made for buffing out. the difference will be night and day between the two. I am sure shopline is much cheaper too.... Last I remember the DCU2021 was about $130-$150 a RTS quart with activator and reducer.

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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:08 pm 
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There was an article in Fine Woodworking magazine a year or so ago where the author showed how to get a smooth, even finish with poly. The wood he chose for the article was curly maple. He started brushing the poly on, followed by sanding. For the final coats he used wipe-on poly. The finished product looked to give it a try.

I made a live-edge, river-glass kitchen island and wanted a tough finish for the live-edge boards. I went with Minwax floor poly and also picked up a can of Minwax wipe-on poly. The wipe-on poly is where you really start to see a nice, even finish. Not sure how well this might work on a guitar, but if this kind of product is all you can get, maybe it's worth making up a sample.

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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:44 pm 
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I've taught some lap steel building classes on other islands where I can't fly with explosive chemicals. I have used the Minwax Waterbase Wipe on Poly in those cases. For a student finish, it is fairly foolproof, and it can be built up to a pore free finish. It takes time though and I'm hoping to find a sprayable poly to try out. Still searching for something that might build a little quicker for the steels I sometimes make in my shop. For acoustics I'm still bound to nitro. Like the look. Hate the process.As I mentioned earlier, the suppliers here, and the available products, are sketchy on the outer Hawaiian Islands. Just hoping to get lucky and find something that works.

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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:12 pm 
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I've used Minwax wipe-on many times on thinges lIke stair rails. I wipe it on with a pad so it does take many coats to build but it does a nice job.

Not quite what I want on a guitar though. I am going to look into using the PPG product Brian mentioned. It sounds very promising. I just have to figure out how to pore fill and if I need a bond coat between the fill and topcoat. And come up with a spraying schedule and then how to buff it. Repairs should be easy with Gluboost

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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:11 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joe Beaver wrote:
I've used Minwax wipe-on many times on thinges lIke stair rails. I wipe it on with a pad so it does take many coats to build but it does a nice job.

Not quite what I want on a guitar though. I am going to look into using the PPG product Brian mentioned. It sounds very promising. I just have to figure out how to pore fill and if I need a bond coat between the fill and topcoat. And come up with a spraying schedule and then how to buff it. Repairs should be easy with Gluboost



Follow the directions here
https://www.e-bodies.org/Resources/Mopa ... et_199.pdf

I use the DCX 61 hardener.

Any pore fill compatible with solvent finishes will work. I recommend a vinyl sealer, anything similar to this
http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog ... ictNbr=825

A catalyzed vinyl sealer would be preferred but not necessary. FWIW, PRS used to finish guitars entirely in a very similar finish when they first started out. They simply sprayed and sanded back until the pores were full...... About 15 -20 coats on each guitar with most of it winding up in the dust collectors after sanding.

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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:03 pm 
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Wow! Thanks Brian, That makes it much easier !!!

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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:52 am 
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Brian, from those instructions, could you do a complete finish in a couple days? How many acoustics could you get from a quart?


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 Post subject: Re: Polyurethane
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:47 am 
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pat macaluso wrote:
Brian, from those instructions, could you do a complete finish in a couple days? How many acoustics could you get from a quart?


Will depend a little on your pore filler but one week is quite possible. I haven't used this in a few years now but from what I recall a RTS quart should do 2 dread size nicely.

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These users thanked the author B. Howard for the post: Pmaj7 (Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:35 am)
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