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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:47 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 4304
Location: Virginia
Over the last ten years or so I've used Sloane tuners on a few guitars and yesterday a client brought back a guitar with the same issue. It's happened to him THREE times now and occurred once more with another client a few years ago. The tuner knobs strip out and spin around making tuning impossible. In each case Stew Mac has been great about replacing them free of charge but still, after this I think I am done with these tuners. In this last case I simply just glued it back on but it seems to me they have some issues with how they mount the knobs. I've tried ebony and Ivoroid and the same thing happens. The tuners otherwise are fantastic but I can't have this keep happening.

I'm just curious if anyone else may have the same experience?

If you have any in stock you might want to consider wicking some thin CA down the shafts into the knobs just in case.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:19 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 3318
Location: United States
I've never had that problem myself. but I've heard of it happening on the steel string version in the past. I believe it's something they've addressed, although, of course, you might well have had a set on the shelf for some time before installing them, and then it might take a while for the problem to show up. I've had fewer problems with Slaon/Waverly tuners than the others I've used.



These users thanked the author Alan Carruth for the post: Pat Foster (Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:06 pm)
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:31 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:01 pm
Posts: 1864
Location: UK
I've had a bit of play between the knobs and the shaft on a few examples - maybe when the tuners were 5 years +. It's been a very small amount of play but definitely there. I just ran CA down the juncture of the tuning knob and it's shaft. I just suspected it was a case of the metal shaft and the tuning knob material expanding/contacting at different rates. Then again most other tuners don't exhibit this.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:08 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 3695
Wasn't it Mr Mckenna who said if you buy a Prancing pony car expect to do some maintenance? beehive


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:43 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 4304
Location: Virginia
I don't remember anything about a Prancing Pony car but it makes sense... I guess :D

I do have a '94 Mercedes E420 that really has been a fantastic car up until about a year ago. But it's still old enough that I can do all the work which I did but now she has not started in a few months. But yea something like an S Class Merc is like owning an airplane, you need to keep up with it but if you do it's the most magnificent thing ever.

The guitar in question is going on 10 years old I believe now. The first two times SM just replaced them which is wonderful customer service. This set is only 2 years old so I don't know if that qualifies for the upgraded ones or not.

I just popped the button off and one dab of epoxy and a day later it's all good.

But still...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:55 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 3318
Location: United States
Metal into wood always presents problems. It tends to give large stress risers, for one thing. To avoid concentrating the load too much you have to have a really tight fit: the FAA recommends that the bolts holding a wood prop on should be tight enough that they need to be tapped in with a hammer. The small tuner shaft on the Sloans tends to concentrate the force anyway, and if you make the shaft too tight in the hole it's likely to crack the button, so it's a tough call. It should be possible to enlarge the shaft a bit, since it's turned of a piece with the worm, but it would require a total redesign of the tooling.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:20 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
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Location: Virginia
These were the Ivioroid buttons but I imagine it's the same problem. The previous ones were both ebony. Hopefully the epoxy will fill in all the gaps and solve the problem.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:41 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 3695
" I don't remember anything about a Prancing Pony car but it makes sense... I guess :D"

You mentioned maintenance on a Ferrari in one of your posts. Maybe the Sloane tuners are more in the "Maserati" price point of guitar tuners.
I think we do have the expectation of dependability to go along with the enhanced performance when we pay a premium for an item. But it doesn't always work out that way.
I've never seen Sloane tuners, except in pictures. The ball bearing string rollers sound like an interesting idea. Do you notice much difference in performance over non ball bearing rollers?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:51 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 4304
Location: Virginia
Ah yes the Ferrari.

Yes! The Sloane tuners have an incredible feel to them. But it is a luxury. Shallers or the like are just fine. You start to increase the price point and yeah you get some fine gears and beautiful bling but in the end they all hold the guitar in tune. I have found them to be exceptional in every way though.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:48 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 3695
Being a bit of an experimentalist I might try adding roller bearings (router bit bearings?) to a set of decent quality tuners to see if it makes a difference. How well do you think that would work? What other things should I keep in mind? The specifications also mentioned worm gear bushings but didn't say what they were made of.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:39 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 3318
Location: United States
These days all the gears and worms are more precisely made than they used to be. From what I can tell, even fairly cheap tuners work well when they're new. As they age, and the worm bearings get loose you start to get into problems. That's where the Sloan/Waverly tuners are better, IMO.

The last time I used Schallers the little decorative turned sleeves on the shaft of one of them got loose, and buzzed unmercifully. It took a while to find it. A small drop of CA on all of those cured the problem, but I switched to Sloans after that.

I've installed a couple of sets of the high-end hand made Classical tuners, and from what I could see they were no better made than the Sloans. They just cost a lot more.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:46 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 4304
Location: Virginia
Oh yes I have chased that mystery buss problem before. The one when you would have sworn it was coming from inside the guitar and it turns out to be a loose tuner knob.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:09 pm 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:11 am
Posts: 1568
If you guys have never tried the Rubner tuners, I suggest you do. I find them to be some of the best out there. They start at around $80. they can go up to $400 . but the only difference is asthetic-engraved plates,MOP buttons etc.


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