Official Luthiers Forum!

First, I admit to a very less-than-thorough grasp of most topics of applied physics relevant to guitars.

So....Strings don't stretch. Nice solid steel wire. When we fret or use a capo, we've moved the string from a straight line to two pieces of a triangle, the hypotenuse being imaginary. What's moving? Neck's not moving. The bridge?

Back to our regularly scheduled program.....

Thanks, folks.

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Peter Havriluk

Strings do stretch and, as a result, the string tension increases. The string mass and length stay the same so the string note goes sharp - slightly. Besides making it easier to play this is another good reason why you want your action, height at the nut, and relief as low as is practical for the player.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

If they don’t stretch, how could you do a 2 1/2 step bend?

Yes, and the stretching is the cause of intonation error. If the strings could somehow sit 0 mm above every fret, there would be no intonation error.

And the stretching is also the reason that compensation of the nut affects all frets. Some people have the incorrect opinion that moving the nut can only affect the intonation of the open string. But moving the nut affects the amount of stretching at all frets. If you put about half the compensation at the nut and half at the saddle, you can get nearly perfect intonation. Except for the fact that equal temperament isn't perfect, but that's a separate issue from intonation. Using half and half, it's like having slid the fretboard that distance, so that when the string stretches down to the fret, it ends up at the right frequency. And that will be the case for every fret. Trevor Gore did the math on that.

Greg

String stretch is a huge factor and that is why nut slots benefit and on steel strings pretty much eliminate the need for nut compensation when you learn to cut the nut slots very low. The lower the slot without going too low the less string stretch.

It should be noted that where we fret makes a difference just like where the capo may be applied in terms of the distance to the frets. It also should be noted that how hard someone frets changes the amount of string stretch and the resulting note as well.

When I set the intonation on the guitars I set-up every day I try to simulate a moderate player in terms of how hard they fret and how hard they hit the instrument. If I know more such as specifically how the player plays I simulate that to nail intonation.

Also classical strings I can stretch them a mile and they will to a large degree revert so I stretch them at least 10 times each. Steel strings I stretch them too especially for gigging musicians and after two good stretches they usually have around 90% of the stretch out of them.

There is more, lots more a lot of subtile things that do impact what results such as the arc of a string over the nut slot, saddle, frets, how high the action is etc.

And one last consideration, the neck Peter IS moving and on an electric the trem may be moving. I can measure neck movement with a full step bend or more on many guitars and all these things are considerations in how and why we set things up as we do.

At some point it becomes knowledge AND feel, science AND art and that is why AI can go drink paddy water it will never get my job I have a soul....

Lastly it is a good idea for those like me asserting something to note, please if you are referencing nylon or steel they are two very different animals....

This is one of the reasons Edward Van Halen boiled his strings before using them - it pre-stretched them.

Good point about the players technique. I used to ask them to play for me before I worked on the guitar to check their technique. One country player complained about out of tune-ness when he played, but when someone else played it would be in tune. He was offended when I told him to lighten up with his fretting hand because his knuckles turned white. "You are literally bending the strings out of tune, pal". After he settled down and told me he wasn't changing how he played, I suggested a serious fret level (of his jumbo frets). He complained, but finally let me do the job. This eased his tendency to bend the string out of tune, and he was satisfied.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince