Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi all,

This is my first post on this board though I expect it to be one of many.

I am Stuart Keith Gort.

I hope to be producing Stuart Keith guitars within a year using cnc technology. I owned a small manufacturing company for 15 years that made composite aircraft propellers for Ultralights, Experimental, and UAV airplanes. I did many reasearch projects for Lockheed, Raytheon, Honeywell....ect. Early on in the propeller business it became apparent that I needed cnc technology to be able to grow professionally. I bought a new Haas VF4 and copies of Mastercam and Solidworks and put it all in my garage where I slowly taught myself to make the complex tooling necessary to implement the molding processes I needed to experiment with.

I've always worked on guitars and always dreamed of building them. Without any guitar building experience I began working about 9 months ago in earnest to build my first instrument. It turns out that almost all of my toolmaking experience applies directly to building instruments and the results have been very encouraging.

I hope the photos show that the cnc can achieve a highly artistic result when applied properly. It is my objective to build fine instruments and apply cnc technology in a way that demands artistic repsect among builders and buyers. That's ambitious I know....but I always bite off more than I can chew

Stu

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Hi Stuart Keith Gort and welcome to the OLF!

That was an excellent introduction and I am also enjoying your pics of your guitar parts.

Great to have you here!

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Welcome aboard, Stu!!!!!

Welcome to the forum!!!

Good looking parts!!!

What software are you using to model, and what software are you using for CAM?


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http://www.cncguitar.com

Thanks for the welcome, guys.

The models are drawn in Solidworks and the toolpaths are generated with Mastercam. I have the whole guitar modeled at this point. There are a number of small parts made as well...including some spiff tuning knobs. I'll begin on the body parts soon once it is decided what type of fixures will be used.

I primarily think in terms of vacuum fixtures and have made a number of them so far. One innovative idea that worked out well was the combination of using a vacuum fixture along with registration concept incorporated into the parts.....see the attached photo that sort of illustrates this idea. The idea here is that one can remove the part any number of times off the holding fixture while the tool itself remains on the cnc table and the origin remains fixed. This allows for very complex wooden inlays to be layered (3D inlay effects), very thin wooden keylines, and the free staging of operations as a part is being developed.

_________________
I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Here's a typical approach I take to modeling.

This drawing includes the part itself, the decorative features, and vacuum holding fixture. Note the exploded view is drawn in order to isolate specific elements. This makes the whole thing easier to manage when it's imported into Mastercam since these features need to be isolated in order to choose contour, pocket, and facing chains.

_________________
I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Welcome to the forum Z. Great looking pieces / parts so far and we look forward to seeing your completed instruments. Make sure you gain a thorough understanding of wood species, proper wood cuts like quarter sawn wood, maintaining an accurate humidity controlled room to store your wood in and do your building in. Otherwise you could be thoroughly disappointed when your green wood dries out and begins to seek equilibrium with its surroundings because ugly things will happen as a result. Working with wood is a totally different animal than metal working.


What are you using for your gasket in your vac jigs and where do you get it?

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Thanks Tim, I have the wood thing covered pretty well I believe. I have a big walk-in freezer that will be converted to hold temp and 7% humididty though I won't go through that trouble unless I really need to. The necks are laminated with symetrical grain and are generally quarter sawn. I have an ongoing experiment now with the 8 necks in the picture. They have been sitting out in the building for about three months now without a finish or having the fret boards glued on. On a daily basis I take a random two and place them together on the flat surfaces to check for warp. They have remained quite stable for months so the symetrical laminates have really proven to be stable. This building is heated and air conditioned.

You are 100% right on wood vs. metal. Metal is SO much more forgiving because of its homogeneous nature. I spent a lot of time in the initial stages of building by doing small experiments to determine feed rates and machining approaches. I came to a small epiphony when I decided to purchase a few reverse direction mills. Now, for certain cuts, I approach the wood with a reverse direction mill and can absolutely guarantee the result.

The seal on the vacuum tooling is made from latex tubing. Latex was selected because it is VERY forgiving when it comes to making the retaining groove and maintaining a seal. The formula I use to establish the groove is.....1.5 x diameter (width) and .80 x diameter (height).

The latex tubing is available from McMaster Carr ... http://www.mcmaster.com ... one of the finest run companies in the world...imo.

_________________
I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Interesting discussion of glues at your web site, Tim. You wanna talk glue sometime I'm up for it

_________________
I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Z, Not to rain on your experiment but you will not likely learn anything. Wood will reach normalized equalibrium within its surroundings, in your shop, in your locale. You are not likely to see it warp or move UNTIL you ship it to the other side of the country or world. If you purchase kiln dried wood that came out of the kiln at 6% MC, bring it to your shop with an average of 12% the wood will take on water fropm the atmosphere and normalize to 12% within a few days or weeks depending upon the cut of wood and its thickness. If you build a git from 12% MC wood, ship it to AZ with a 4% humidity level, the wood will loose moisture,shrink most likely crack. I learned these lessons the hard way. Just trying to save you some grief.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Spokane is a little wetter than the national average but is much, much drier than the west side of the state. I expected to have to control humidity at some point later, when I actually make instruments to ship out. I have epoxies that that are non hygroscopic so the wood is the main issue I worry about.

I should read about this. Do you have a recommendation for a place to start? Specifically I'd like information on control equipment that is used by builders like me. I'll be building a shop soon and have the ability to build in what is required at the onset...or at least convert a large walk-in freezer for long term storage. Thinking through it more, I'll likey have to control the whole shop. I'll be building a shop about 2000 sq. ft. Who makes this stuff?

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Great Combination of software!

I also specifically use solidworks and Mastercam....both great!

AWESOME looking parts, and a great approach to machining...

Thanks for sharing with us....

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-CyborgCNC
http://www.cncguitar.com
https://www.facebook.com/CncGuitar

Z, just phone a local HVAC contractor and tell them what you want to do with your shop and or freezer. They can set up a system to control a RH range in the 40% - 50% zone. I build much drier and my control window is 38% - 42%.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Hey Tim,

I followed your advice and talked to several HVAC guys. Seems like the electric units that control heat/AC/humidity are the best recommended units. My question to you is: do you build drier because it is more dangerous to dry out a wet instrumnent than to moisten a dry one?

My thinking is that you are building dry (drier) because there is less likeyhood of damage occurring with moisture ingress.

_________________
I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

The latter. Since I ship all over the world I have found that my guitars are far more stable in various climates when I build on the dry side. Wood can take on moisture a lot more efficiently than it can stand to loose moisture.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

I like the stripped down VMC. A Haas VF0, VF2?

That's a Haas TM-3.....a tool room mill that is made as it is pictured. I also have a VF-2 and a VF-4. I'm keeping the VF-4 and the TM-3 for guitars.....probably selling the VF-2. I have until Nov. of this year to clear out a factory full of stuff. I'm building a shop for guitars and hope to be selling them fairly soon. There's a lot of work to do before things have settled down and I need a little peace before I can get focused but I have made some pretty good progress so far.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Stuart: Those are gorgeous necks! So you're located in Spokane as well? I'd love to see your work in person! With all that equipment I wonder if you'd be willing to sell individual guitar parts in the future? Not a one off design that needs a ton of programming but possibly more generic parts such as the tuner knobs and such I think I read about you working on. Those fretboards are so cool, although I'd stick to darker woods to keep 'em clean looking. I'm reminded of the Leo Fender story that says he noticed guitar players fretboards looked dirty all the time so he switched from maple to the rosewood that is so common today.
Alex

You bet......pm sent.

Thanks for those nice comments. That guitar series is called "Elise"....my wife's middle name. I tried to make female shapes for those inlays. I started doing wooden inlay work years ago but that is the first time I applied it to guitars. Those necks are produced in two machining operations to get them to that point.

I think rosewood with verawood, tagua nut, and bloodwood inlays would look very nice. I'm doing the art on those inlays now. For the new fret markings I'm trying to create a graphic that incorporates mechanical and natural geometry....to reflect the dicotomy which we call the "electric guitar". Hehe....I probably think too much.

_________________
I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic