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 Post subject: Bolt on neck Aria
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:00 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 17
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
This guitar had the neck removed poorly, breaking both sides of the heel block (if that's the right term). I glued that back together, changed the wood screws which were stripped to machine screws with embedded nuts in the neck and made a shim that seems to have the neck aligned with the top of the bridge well enough that I'm thinking of hide glueing it. There's a gap on both sides of the neck, one measures at .008", and one is a little more than .010". Not at all clear what I should do with respect to those side gaps. The larger one is visible from the top. Appreciate any advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt on neck Aria
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:58 pm 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:43 am
Posts: 445
Any way to do a picture?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt on neck Aria
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:27 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 17
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Mebbe. I have pix on my phone, but obviously I'm new on this site and don't yet know how to post a pic here. Will dig around some and see if I can figure it out. What exactly do you want to see?

A little history: I'm 70, no interest in doing this for money, spent the last 30 years or so rebuilding motorcycles. If you do a good job you end up with a $3-4K valued bike that it took 7-8K to build. Did seven or eight, think I wanna take a break from that. When I was in the service, a buddy got me into guitar, and he flew to Japan to buy an Aria. At the time I thought it sounded sweet. Thought it would be a challenge to buy a project guitar and see what I could do with it. I have a few that I play, so if I can fix this one so it plays well, I'll probably just give it to a family member. roy


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt on neck Aria
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:56 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 1329
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
We need to see pictures. Email your cell phone picture to yourself. I believe it has to be less than 256K, if its bigger you can open it with a program like MS Paint (the original version) and resize it.

Come back here and open the full editor to post a reply. Below the text box is something that says "if you want to attach one or more files...", choose your file, add the file, submit it. Its a big huge hassle but thats what you have to do. A picture is worth a thousand words.....

I'll add that project guitars can be just like project motorcycles (or cars or house or....) - often they are loosing propositions but thats the way we learn (and some of use get gratification from bring back an old instrument to playing condition. We'll help you all we can.


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt on neck Aria
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 17
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Here's the worst side. My plan was to use this to learn a proper setup, but I would like to not totally ignore cosmetics along the way, especially not do things that make it too late to fix something obvious. I doubt I will have anything better than a 5 foot guitar, but I'm expecting to learn a lot of what not to do. What other pix? roy

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt on neck Aria
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:25 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 17
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Here's an as received view:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt on neck Aria
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:31 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 17
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
The missing spruce patch...

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt on neck Aria
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:17 am
Posts: 736
Location: United States
You could inlay a couple strips of marquetry, letting them overhang a bit covering the gap.



These users thanked the author Glen H for the post: flemsmith (Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:37 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: Bolt on neck Aria
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 17
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Didn't even know what marquetry was. I'll buy a sample pack and see if I can get it thinned down enough without tearing it up. So, when I get it ready for assy, do I use hide glue or CA?


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt on neck Aria
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:17 am
Posts: 736
Location: United States
You could use a black white black stip just like the puddling on the git. I’d just use titebond myself.

That’s purfling. Auto-complete miss.


Last edited by Glen H on Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt on neck Aria
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:35 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 17
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
What's puddling? Using titebond, you'd not really expect to fill the whole cavity would you? You're just talking about filling the gap at the top of the soundboard, right?

Sorta related, the fretboard angle I show in the first pic is how I'm getting the straightedge to the bridge height that should give me decent action...but it looks wierd to me. I think there's more bulging aft of the bridge than I realized at first. Am I overlooking a better way to deal with the fretboard mount, or is this what you do when you're dealing with an old guitar?


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt on neck Aria
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:12 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 1329
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
What I see are two different problems. First is to reconstruct the damaged sound hole area - glue that piece back in and glue up that crack between the top and the head block. Either Titebond or hide would work - if you are comfortable with hide that probably the better choice but since Titebond has a much longer working time that would be my choice. I would do it in two parts - work glue into the top to block crack, clamp it up and let dry. It looks like the sound hole piece will fit back where it belongs - you might have to make a little cleat on the inside to span any cracks.

Second, the bolt on neck looks very much like a standard Fender style. If so it shouldn't have any glue in the pocket - the screws are sufficient. The neck can stand proud of the top (they do on Fenders) and the neck might be angled slightly (sometimes this is done with shims in a Fender neck pocket) - your goal is to have the neck angle and height such that a straightedge on the frets just touches the top of the bridge. That will give you enough adjustment to get a nice playable action.

The 0.018 gap in your first picture means that there is a good change of some wiggle when you screw the neck on - be careful to get it centered with the bridge. I like to put a straightedge on each sides of the neck and make sure they hit the same place on the bridge.

The neck joint on that guitar is common on electrics but pretty rare on an acoustic. However it is probably much easier to work on than the standard dovetail or M&T joints, it sounds like you understand the geometry just fine.



These users thanked the author Freeman for the post: flemsmith (Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:11 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: Bolt on neck Aria
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:11 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 17
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
OK, thanks. I've already done the hide glueing of the heel block sides and the spruce patch of the soundhole; I was just a bit worried about counting only on the machine screws to hold the neck and thought some hide glue there too would be best for a repair that might last awhile. Then I started worrying about the gaps along the side of the neck. The fretboard straightedge is just over the top of the bridge. There's a metal saddle holder that's about 2mm tall, the straightedge touches it about halfway up, so mebbe 1 mm above the wood of the bridge. I think I can get pretty good action with it as is; that side angle of the fretboard just looked weird to me, based on any other guitar I have. (I only have acoustics and classicals, no electrics.)

roy


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt on neck Aria
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:53 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 1329
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I've never been a fan of wood screws holding the neck on like that but that is the way Fender has done it forever. A really elegant solution (you'll appreciate this) is to put threaded inserts in the neck and use machine bolts - lots of us do this on standard M&T heel guitars and I've seen it done on a few Fenders but its a huge amount of work with little justification. An electric guitar has maybe 120 pounds of tension on the neck, a steel string acoustic has 160 or 170 so it is quite a bit more, but I wouldn't worry about it for this guitar.

Here is a picture of a Fender style neck joint with a couple of little 1/4 and 1/2 degree shims that can change the neck angle just enough to get good action. However you also see a lot of old tele's with a piece of match book cover or a Dunlop pick in that cavity - guitar work isn't always elegant

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt on neck Aria
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:29 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 17
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
I should probably say something about how I completed this little issue.... I was not able to modify a saddle that gave me the expected results at the 13th fret with a capo on the 1st. So I decided to pull the neck back off with the goal of starting with the fingerboard more parallel with the top of the guitar. After a few different shim arrangements, I ended up with a flat spacer of 2.8mm and my narrowest angled shim together. Gave me a straightedge 1mm above the metal saddle holder. I then made a new nut with wider spacing than the original to fit my fat fingers. Now it is playing as good as any guitar I own. I'm enjoying it and will continue to do that until I decide to put some work into the cosmetics, which are currently 5 feet at best. Thanks for all inputs, they were helpful. roy


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