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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:31 pm 
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Koa
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
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Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
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Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
Do the double truss rods work together to affect the relief of the entire neck, or do the rods work more independently affecting the relief of their corresponding sides?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:07 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Those are two very separate truss rods. So you'd better know what you’re doing there. ;-)

Search the web, you'll find what you're looking for. Just use common sense and hopefully a lot of experience with adjusting truss rods. Just don't follow "classic" truss rod adjustment tips, search for Rick-specific info.


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These users thanked the author Smylight for the post: Conor_Searl (Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:33 pm)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:27 pm 
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Koa
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Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
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Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
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Smylight wrote:
Those are two very separate truss rods. So you'd better know what you’re doing there. ;-)

Search the web, you'll find what you're looking for. Just use common sense and hopefully a lot of experience with adjusting truss rods. Just don't follow "classic" truss rod adjustment tips, search for Rick-specific info.


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Haha, yes I've done the googling. I'm finished with the bass, didn't crank the truss rods and never popped the fret board off so it should be good. Also it's a 2007 model, so I don't think it's using the older style of weaker truss rods. I was careful anyway though.

When I removed the cover one rod had no tension and the other had a bit. There was also more than .035" relief. This customer drop tunes his bass to A standard. So a lot of relief is actually okay, but that seemed like really a lot. Anyway my question arose because on the bass side I now have .023" and on the treble .012". Which seems good from a playability standpoint. But I'm not sure if that result is because of my truss rod tweaking, or because that relief was milled into the fret plane. (There was too much relief for me to get a measurement with my feeler gauges at the beginning.) From a design perspective, is the intention that the rods work together as one, or should they be working independently to address relief on either side of the board?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:33 pm 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
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Connor they are independent but still can work together when and if they need to.

The original idea is to have different adjustable levels of relief on the treble side and the bass side.

What Rik got wrong is that they are too close together to work very independently of each other although they do a bit and to a degree work independently of each other.

Otherwise they are simply truss rods adjust as you would any other rod and for the same reasons. You know what you are doing and will see what I mean when you start adjusting and observing.

By the way Riks suck big time and it's really too bad that they have had some iconic super stars as players in the past, Beatles, Petty, Dylan, etc. Folks want that Rik sound to sound like the stars but the guitars are not well made in my experience.

There's a well known story in the industry about a client who threatened to sue a major and well known guitar store because the nut that they made at the client's request for his ****** Rik 12 string had the courses backwards in terms of where the larger string was on top or under the minor string. Rick does this in reverse of all others and the dumbass client never noticed prior that his Rik was like this from the f*ctory. The store made a new bone nut in accordance with what Rik uses and the client got his panties in a bunch and was slinging barbs and threatening to sue. The client was wrong, clearly and what caused all of this is Rik has to be different in their own way.

Lots of things on Riks are like this. We recently installed an aftermarket nearly $200 bridge on another Rik 12 that has independent saddles so that the intonation can be dialed in with out one saddle being for two strings.

The bridge looked like I banged it out on my belt sander in my basement when I'm drunk... It was horrible with deep grinder scratches, the saddles did not align with the strings and the stupid thing just sits in place on a metal plate and if the customer takes all the string off at once it falls off and there is no telling where, exactly it was located prior. High priced Junk!

We recently doubled the price of working on Riks known as a "punitive quotation" in the hope that some of the ones that we have to service would go the heck away. The clients took it on the chin and kept coming telling us that we are worth it.... Sheesh... maybe it's time to redouble pricing and see if that scares them off. Not a fan of Riks.

PS: Ask Dave Collins what he thinks of Riks and you may learn some new colorful words.... Dave and I fight over who's turn it is to have to work on the Riks that come our way.

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These users thanked the author Hesh for the post: Conor_Searl (Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:33 pm)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:51 pm 
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As a former Rickenbacker 4001 owner (and the store I worked for was a Rick dealer), I can tell you I'm a big Rick fan, but they went their own way as opposed to following the industry. Anyone remember their slant fret 481? I loved playing it, and those big humbuckers sounded great! Let's just say they have their quirks. Whole bunch of Beatles, Byrds, and Petty tunes would not sound the same without the 12 string Ricks chiming and sparkling on the backing tracks.

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These users thanked the author Chris Pile for the post: Conor_Searl (Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:34 pm)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:26 pm 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Chris Pile wrote:
As a former Rickenbacker 4001 owner (and the store I worked for was a Rick dealer), I can tell you I'm a big Rick fan, but they went their own way as opposed to following the industry. Anyone remember their slant fret 481? I loved playing it, and those big humbuckers sounded great! Let's just say they have their quirks. Whole bunch of Beatles, Byrds, and Petty tunes would not sound the same without the 12 string Ricks chiming and sparkling on the backing tracks.


Exactly nothing else has that Rik tone.

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http://www.annarborguitars.com


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:30 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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My process for setting up ricks with dual rods.

Start with both rods just loose and strings at pitch. Slowly tighten both rods in unison until you have obtained even relief at the e strings of an amount you would like for the low E. Now snug up the treble side rod to remove a bit of relief under the high strings where you do not need as much. You may need to let off the bass side rod just a slight bit, if you do be sure to loosen and then slightly tighten it so it will hold better. Only slightly more hassle than a single rod.

Always amused at what other shops dislike working on. I view most instruments on my bench with slight disdain simply for the fact that if they were working properly they wouldn't need to be here.... But ultimate PITA guitars hands down, Ovation!

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These users thanked the author B. Howard for the post (total 2): Conor_Searl (Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:19 pm) • Smylight (Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:40 am)
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:55 pm 
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Koa
Koa

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My method is pretty much exactly the same as Mr. Howard has already stated. Just don't overtorque either of them and you'll be golden.

B. Howard wrote:
Always amused at what other shops dislike working on. I view most instruments on my bench with slight disdain simply for the fact that if they were working properly they wouldn't need to be here.... But ultimate PITA guitars hands down, Ovation!


You are not kidding with Ovations. The only rule I adhere to with Ovation is that I limit the work I do. Restrings/basic adjustments only. No bridge resets/neck resets or anything of the sort. It has greatly decreased my annoyance and time wasting at my shop.

Chris Pile wrote:
As a former Rickenbacker 4001 owner (and the store I worked for was a Rick dealer), I can tell you I'm a big Rick fan, but they went their own way as opposed to following the industry. Anyone remember their slant fret 481? I loved playing it, and those big humbuckers sounded great! Let's just say they have their quirks. Whole bunch of Beatles, Byrds, and Petty tunes would not sound the same without the 12 string Ricks chiming and sparkling on the backing tracks.


My white whale electric is a 420/6. Can't afford one in good shape, so I'd like to find one that's been abused and fix it up. With the family growing though that's likely going to have to wait.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:37 am 
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Mahogany
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Hesh wrote:

Exactly nothing else has that Rik tone.

I beg to differ - when my German Pointer barks into a bucket he comes very close to the sound of a Rik bass!


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These users thanked the author Bosco Birdswood for the post: Hesh (Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:59 am)
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:00 pm 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
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State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Bosco Birdswood wrote:
Hesh wrote:

Exactly nothing else has that Rik tone.

I beg to differ - when my German Pointer barks into a bucket he comes very close to the sound of a Rik bass!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll bet too with the right meal like bacon he's quite the shredder. :)

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