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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:11 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 72
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Got the top off the plywood guitar. My first learning experience with routing other than rosettes. Two things I learned that another noob might be interested in.
1. StewMac tells you to rout 'climbing' four paths around the guitar, then reverse and go all the way around CCW. That probably works fine on wood edges, but I was routing thru the top of the plastic binding and purfling to see the edge of the old top. The plastic dies not like routing in a changed direction. Should have just kept climbing, which means letting the rotation of the router (CW) bite into and 'pull' along the edge of the guitar. As a result, have a slight mahogany side repair.
2. I made the rout body holding fixture out of a double sink sized piece of formica mounted on sawhorses. I could walk all around it, which I thought was the goal, but most of the ones you see smarter guys use are cantilevered and leave the body of the guitar supported in space so you can walk around it without having to watch where your feet are stepping/tripping. I'll remake mine before I rout off the other all solid wood guitar top. Some of the kerfed top support was coming loose, so it's being reglued now. Roy
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:15 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 72
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
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Did some routing today, got the top off the Italian Monarch without any real drama. No back support bracing at all, guess the fairly deep laminated arched back is strong enough without it. Had to do a little kerfing repair. Two newbie points to remember...the Stew Mac routing advice is to do a climb cut in four places around the body, then change to CCW and go all the way around. That probably is good input for routing bare wood, don't do it when plastic binding is involved. (Duh). The plastic just wants to see the router bit in one direction. Left me with a little side splinter to reglue. Also, my holding table for the body was too large, (got in the way of my feet), so I borrowed an idea I saw in one of the other build threads and made one for the Phillipino guitar that's a bit more of a cantilever style. No more worrying about your feet instead of the router.
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Roy


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:31 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 72
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
This guitar from the Philipines is kind of interesting. It was a nylon folk guitar I bought in the late sixties when I was over there. Handmade in a little town called Tarlac, just north of Clark AB, which is where I was. It has bamboo kerfing, the top was nailed onto the head block (not sure of the right name) after the neck was attached, and it must have been sold to me with a second rate top with all sorts of cleats inside to hide impending cracks. It is an all solid wood guitar, and I have no idea what the back and sides are made from. A few pix..
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Not so sure whether to try to do anything with the kerfing, it's pretty well attached, or just use it cutting new brace holes.
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Notice the bent nail in the headblock.
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And here's the back. I guess that's flatsawn, right? I was told it's Japanese Rosewood when I bought it, never heard of that.
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I'll be awhile getting ready to attach new tops to these. For one thing, I don't think I have enough clamps yet.
Roy


Last edited by flemsmith on Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:42 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:02 am
Posts: 2156
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
First name: Barry
Last Name: Daniels
Those diamond cleats are way over-sized.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:50 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 72
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Yes, but what surprised me is that guitar was never at a repair shop. I bought it freshly made, and clearly it had some cracks in the top that they hid well enough I never saw them until I'd let it dry out from lack of interest much later. Plus all the cleats have a tiny hole in the center which makes me think they actually did it after mounting the top. Just kind of interesting to think of how the assembly techniques are a bit unique from what was then pretty close to a third world country, at least in the countryside. Roy


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:17 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 72
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Continuing in the vein of things not to do like I did if you're a beginner...
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For some reason I didn't understand that when you mount the top, the braces should go inside the sides, not on top.That coupled with the fact that I routed the original top off a little too deeply left me with some gaps that I felt should be filled in so the binding has more meat to attach itself to. I had some thin cherry and walnut I had cut in tuning up my bandsaw, so...
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And then I was ready to start the binding and purfling. I didn't take pix of the first one, but I was using CA in between the tape, and I way overdid it on the CA, (evidently it should be closer to a drop that stays away from the tape?) so now I need to clean up CA that ran under the tape, it's quite the mess. I'm hoping this one does not have that same problem. Won't know for sure til I pull the tape.
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til my next mistake.....Roy


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:28 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 72
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Forgot to mention that I did add kerfing to the Philippine guitar. Not so much a mistake, just wasn't sure there was enough attachment area with only the bamboo.
Image

Roy


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:25 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 72
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
OK, binding on both guitars. Ended up looking ok for my first try, I think. Just used my cheap Harbor freight laminate trimmer, plus the Stew Mac basic bearing set. I did stress a bit over how to get set up for a fairly exact cut of both ledges, which I can't brag about. But sandpaper fixes a good bit. Filipino guitar; top is roasted cedar, so a bit darker than I would have chosen if I was thinking from experience.
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The Italian Monarch. One noob mistake I should mention; I was using CA to tack the binding down, but I way overdid it while the binding and purfling were taped, should have just used a drop in all the spaces between tape til I took the tape off the next day. I'm still doing some cleanup of the side where the tape got super glued to the side. Good news is I think I could do a better job the next time I do one. Another mistake I made is when I ordered the purfling, I didn't really have a plan for what I wanted, so I ended up with a tiny strip of black that I really should have bought already laminated to the black and white.
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Guess I could at least do a close up pic or two, can't tell much at a full view. What you can tell from that pic is that I didn't do a great job of glueing the two halves of the top together initially, so I redid it, and when I did, I took most of the center out of one side. So you can see the two darker streaks are not symmetrical as they should be. So far I'm happy to be learning all this stuff from re-topping cheap guitars rather than starting off with a $600 plus kit and making the same mistakes. Roy


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:53 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 72
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
So here's a closer pic of the binding and purfling. Pretty plain jane, but that's what I wanted to try for my first time, especially since I've no way to bend any wood bindings, which would have been a preference... someday. Since they are old guitars, I used cream instead of white; don't think either would have been a perfect match to the back bindings.
Image
Image

Roy


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