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 Post subject: Re: Jazz box refinish
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:58 pm 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 10393
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Tecumseh and Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Conor_Searl wrote:
It appears this thread has taken a slight detour...

I just want to say to all you regular guys who chime in with real world advice as difficult as it may be to hear from time to time please don't stop! And thank you, thank you, thank you. If I'm doing something or considering doing something hair-brained, ineffective, and stupid I desperately want to know! I know a lot of people get into lutherie as a hobby, and therefore aren't as interested in the real-world advice. But for me, I needed an out from full time guitar teaching (almost 60 students a week) and chose to dive into this as a way to supplement income, and the plan (5 years) is to eventually have it replace most of my teaching income, the hiccup is I'm not 20 anymore, I've got three kids, and a mortgage, and no one near by to get any kind of real mentorship/apprenticeship from and a year out of real life for some kind of education just isn't in the cards, so I scour everything I can trying to learn and grow, and this place has been one of the best places I've found in that regard. So again thank you all for your generosity and patience. Don't stop grinding us!


Connor I've always appreciated your comments and dedication to doing some pretty difficult work at times on some pretty difficult instruments. I didn't know that you are a teacher.

I have a suggestion for you if I may please. From what I've seen you are very capable of helping others here on the things that you feel comfortable contributing and from the experiences that you may have had.

Over a decade ago when I was just starting out I would be the first one here to reply to questions about building and later repair jumping right in unashamed that I could be wrong and knowing that the folks in the know here would tell me and everyone else when I did get it wrong. And... I did get it wrong at times and just did above in this thread over Bondo. :) But I learned far more, faster and I'll add it really got to sink in too when I had conversations here to relate and remember the comments. Jump in and test your skills and knowledge my friend and everyone else you will all be better for it. Kind of like a public quiz... :).

My motivation today for my off topic comments was the plethora of comments from long term members in support of a newer person beating their head against the wall with an instrument that was never intended to be repaired and that has zero learning ability beyond how.... to.... do....hack.... work. This is such a recurring theme now that others who used to walk the earth on this forum discuss it and cite it as one of the reasons they don't wish to participate any longer.

I have a spray booth full of repairable, serviceable instruments that when we have time which is never these days we would fix and gift to homeless folks, vets, students, immigrants and one immigrant little girl who's dream was to have and learn to play a Uke. She's done both now and this can be rewarding as hell.

One of our Luthier friends who's retired is picking up where we left off and we are keeping him supplied with instruments to fix up and donate to folks and he's now doing the work. He's been in this trade for 40 years, made his living at it and is now retired.

Thanks for the kind comments Connor and it's pretty clear to me that you will go as far with Lutherie as you wish to, you have the bug.

_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars
World-Class Repair and Restoration
http://www.annarborguitars.com


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz box refinish
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:53 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo
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Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 120
First name: William
Last Name: Bustard
Country: CANADA
Its not the destination its the journey?
I it were I,
fill what I could with 2 part epoxy by injection-
Get some nice flamey or birdeye maple veneer and working from the guitar centre line
pre fit it book matched pieces and then use a vacuum press to stick it on there
you may have to make forms to clamp the sides. Or at least some plywood strips scored so the will do the curve line-

using wood glue- it will need some small repairs after no doubt to fill small cracks and voids if any-
contact cement will work but not recommended as it wiil no doubt make it sound like cardboard
I would then finish the body with repeated very light coats of hand rubbed poly
or even tung oil by wiping it on and right off so it doesn't soak in.
the neck I would just use nice black enamel and rub it right in allowing it to dry between coats
then give it a nice smoothing coat when its really dry biff it out to look antique

I guess one might call me a guerilla luthier , but some projects are about the challenge.

_________________
You just pick up a chord, go twang, and you're got music. -Sid Vicious


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz box refinish
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:27 pm 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 960
City: Escondido
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 92029
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
I love me a good challenge, but that thing is rotten. If it were me, I would offer to make a new guitar and reuse some of the old in cosmetic ways. Put some of the "soul" of the old instrument in a new one. Honor the history of the instrument with an instrument, not an epoxy/bondo wall hanger.


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz box refinish
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:10 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:02 am
Posts: 2156
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
First name: Barry
Last Name: Daniels
William Bustard wrote:
Its not the destination its the journey?
I it were I,
fill what I could with 2 part epoxy by injection-
Get some nice flamey or birdeye maple veneer and working from the guitar centre line
pre fit it book matched pieces and then use a vacuum press to stick it on there
you may have to make forms to clamp the sides. Or at least some plywood strips scored so the will do the curve line-

using wood glue- it will need some small repairs after no doubt to fill small cracks and voids if any-
contact cement will work but not recommended as it wiil no doubt make it sound like cardboard
I would then finish the body with repeated very light coats of hand rubbed poly
or even tung oil by wiping it on and right off so it doesn't soak in.
the neck I would just use nice black enamel and rub it right in allowing it to dry between coats
then give it a nice smoothing coat when its really dry biff it out to look antique

I guess one might call me a guerilla luthier , but some projects are about the challenge.


You can't put an acoustic guitar body in a vacuum bag because it will be crushed.


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz box refinish
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:49 pm 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo
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Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 120
First name: William
Last Name: Bustard
Country: CANADA
Crushed? Why? I would be dismantled. There is always a way.

_________________
You just pick up a chord, go twang, and you're got music. -Sid Vicious


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz box refinish
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:41 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:02 am
Posts: 2156
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
First name: Barry
Last Name: Daniels
Yes, if you take the top and back off you could put them in a vacuum bag. But talk about trying to make a silk purse out of a pig's ear!


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz box refinish
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:45 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:12 pm
Posts: 2881
First name: Bryan
Last Name: Bear
City: St. Louis
State: Mo
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I'm a little late to this thread and part of me dreads digging it up again/contributing to the off topic discussion . But. . . it has really made me think about how I interact here. I am a hobbyist and nothing more. I read here to pick up information and have a few yuck with online acquaintances and friends. When I first started reading on instrument making fora I had no experience, not even woodworking experience, and it was nice to be able to see discussions that were policed by the community. By that I mean that if something was stated or advised, the rest of the members would be right there to correct any inaccuracies or provide insight as to what would not be good practice. I learned a lot from seeing people debate the merits of various aspects of the craft.

Over time, I started to see the same types of questions pop up over and over and became aware that the long time members were getting weary of hashing out the same advice over and over. Questions would sometimes be left with, the instruction to search the old discussions and not much more. I tried to make an effort to start offering my opinion or technique (without implying that I was an expert and usually pointing out that I wasn't) in hopes that it would be discussed or corrected. That way lots of people could learn from what I was doing even if it was wrong.

It makes me sad to know that experienced people/pros are not participating out of frustration. The thing I always appreciated the most about this community was the sharing of information. I mean heck, I went from no woodworking experience to being able to assemble playable guitars almost solely by reading on the internet and practicing the hobby in my basement workshop. I'm not a pro nor am I close to ready to be one but it is still impressive how far this resource has taken me.

I for one am not offended if someone corrects me in the public forum, that is how I and others learn. Healthy debate is what brings the group forward. I can't say I blame the seasoned pros for getting fed up with arguments from newbs and I get why the would migrate away from these places. After all they end up giving more than they get from the forum (not that there is never an opportunity for them to learn by helping. . .).

I guess I'm just struggling with what my contributions can/should be to keep the spirit of learning alive without doing un-checked harm to the knowledge base. . .

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.



These users thanked the author Bryan Bear for the post: Chowlie (Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:28 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: Jazz box refinish
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:21 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:02 am
Posts: 2156
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
First name: Barry
Last Name: Daniels
Someone has to take the torch for the next leg. Us old guys are getting too damned slow.

Personally, I have been trying for years to mentor folks in my neck of the woods, (as well as on this forum and the MIMF) but there aren't many that are even interested. It makes me sad to think that my shop, tools, and knowledge will sit unused when I am gone.


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz box refinish
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:36 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 72
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
As a totally new and unlearned amateur, I have looked for a search feature which I've used on motorcycle and car forums and didn't see it. Is it obvious and I just don't see it? I'd use it when I had questions if I knew how. Roy

Oops! Now I see it. Sorryyy Will use it before I ask questions.


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz box refinish
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:48 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:49 pm
Posts: 1
First name: Thomas
City: Lyon
Zip/Postal Code: 69004
Country: France
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Jeremy Vonk wrote:
Here is the guitar. I dont see any brand label. The sides and neck may be maple, but I'm not sure. The gaps at the neck joint were filled with filler.

Thanks for looking!Image
Simulation Regroupement de prêtImageImageImage

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Hi all, I agree that this photo (guitar) is important, it is interesting. I would like to know more if it is possible, thank you for your feedback  Good luck. Sincerely.


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