Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello sir
we often see sound boards of spruce and cedar are graded into
AAA, AA , A and many more depending on the seller
i want to ask that does the higher grade i.e tighter grain soundboard
sounds better than lower grade i.e wider grain
or are they just for aesthetics?
also are they more durable and less prone to craking than wider grains?
waiting for ur consultations.

It's mostly cosmetic.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I think I hear dpm99 putting the plutonium in his Delorean as we speak.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Here come the plumber jokes.

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

Yep, mostly cosmetic, and then there is much variances in grading criteria. I've seen (and currently using) B grade tops that would pass for AA at other places.

lol

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David Morris

Doesn't the 2025 delorean come with a Mr. Fusion energy compactor standard?

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

There's a conversion kit too.

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David Morris

It seems that everyone has different grading criteria. I have seen tops listed as "Master Grade" that I would call AA at best, and vice versa.
There are a bunch of things that will downgrade a soundboard. Most important to me is how well quartered the wood is & how much silk is showing. Grain runout & non-vertical grain will both effect how much silk is visible in the top, and how stiff the top is.
If there is enough runout to cause a visible colour shift at the centre joint, the top should not (IMO) be graded in the top couple of grades.
After that is how straight the grain is & how evenly spaced the grain lines are. Wavey grain & sudden changes in grain spacing will downgrade a top. A gradual shift from wide grain to fine, across the board, shouldn't downgrade a top. I believe these are more cosmetic than structural issues.
It used to be that very fine grain was highly prized in top wood. Thinking is changing on that score & wide grained wood that is attractive & well cut can (legitimately, IMO) be graded quite high.
And then there's the whole "colour" issue. Some people downgrade heavily for colour banding & streaks & some don't.
I guess the trick is to find a supplier you trust & let them know what your criteria are.
Most "defects" that affect grade will not affect structural or tonal qualities. (a straight grained & perfectly quartered top will often split more easily than one with wavey grain or one that is not well quartersawn)
Personally, I am leaning towards wider grained tops these days, as they are often (but not always) lower in weight without a significant loss in stiffness. ie. they have a better stiffness to weight ratio.
As a general rule, I am suspicious of any supplier that throws the term "Master Grade" around, too freely.
The bottom line is... Get three different graders to grade the same stack of tops & you will probably get widely varied results.

There is some merit to perfectly vertical grained, no runout, straight tight grained soundboard wood. How good it will sound depends on the physical properties these things can help (but don't always) indicate, and the skill of the builder.
Grading systems are all over the map and only indicate in a general way what that seller feels is important.

I don't even bother with the grading terms anymore.

I look for first vertical grain with no long grain runout (as evidenced by color shift at the center joint when viewed at an angle, as was previously mentioned). Since the medullary rays present perpendicular to the annular rings I look for strong rays across the entire face.

Second is straightness of the grain.

I don't worry about how wide the grain is too much, but I like the 8 per inch or finer range.

I don't give a crap about color stripes at all, although I don't like dingy green tints or blotches.

I like tops with unique character, and stripey tops have that for me.

The trick is to find suppliers who can provide the tops with the characteristics you want regardless of how they label it.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Have learned that most of the time Grading terms are useless unless you have a supplier that is consistent and you trust. Last year I bought 4 Mastergrade WRC tops from a supplier on ebay that I thought I knew. I paid a premium for the tops. When I received them I was very disappointed in the quality. Two weeks later I bought several WRC 3A tops from a different supplier that were 1/3 the price of the Mastergrades and blew the MG's away quality wise. Do not buy a Grade, buy what you like and cheap doesn't equal poor quality

Thanks for ur replies friends
one of my friend said that if the sound board weighs between 150 - 170 gms with all the braces shaped is good for using as soundboard for classical guitars
is it true?

I trust Shane at High Mountain.
He cuts&splits the wood right.
Then his grading is dead on!

Mike

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Mike Collins

+1. Shane's packing material is sometimes what others sell as AAA.
You always get what you pay for with him, and sometimes more.
Brent

I'm sure I could make a really bad one within those weight limits.
I would suggest it's got more to do with firstly the stiffness/weight ratio of the wood selected, and then the balance between thickness of the board and size of bracing, rather than just overall weight.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Anthony - Who was this vendor?

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

I bought some German spruce tops last year from a German supplier. The prices were good and I got 2 "AA" and 2 "A" grades, I honestly can't tell them apart and they all sounded wonderful (at least to me). One huge turn off for me is runout.. makes hand planing as well as repair a nightmare... the top would split as soon as any stress is put on it (like a bridge removal) and the wild runout means lots of tearout while planing. I had a 6 dollar sitka top I bought in Taiwan that was like that... the top was sawn, not split. I ended up rejecting it and used it for spruce patches and back strips. A bunch went into a few repair jobs I had...

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Thanks friends for ur consultations
i will keep in mind while selling the soundboards..