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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:39 am 
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Mahogany
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Any other Katz guitars are out there?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:20 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Unfortunately - Mario passed away last summer.... And so there is no longer a source for this wood. And he was pretty close to the vest on what it really was.

I haven't heard anything about the disposition of whatever store of wood may have been at his place...

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:52 pm 
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Mario's wife still has her eBay going.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:57 pm 
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I have a couple sets. Still seasoning.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Mahogany
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I was lucky enough to get a number of sets. Have used for an OM and a couple of dreads, which turned out well. I could spare a few sets if anyone is interested.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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At what price?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:57 am 
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This is the finished guitar that Mario used as a banner at the top of the old Forum. It is a Katz guitar.

Image

Image

This is another Katz I am working on now. Just happened to use herring bone on both.

Image

Image

Michael


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:24 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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That looks like some of the lower grade Engelmann I have. It's stripey but stiffer than the typical wall paper white stuff.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Clay S. wrote:
That looks like some of the lower grade Engelmann I have. It's stripey but stiffer than the typical wall paper white stuff.


Nice guitars Michael, I was thinking engleman or white spruce.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:39 am 
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Mahogany
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Very nice guitars Michael. That first top is very unlike any that I have. Mine show very little contrast between the grain lines and the rest of the wood. I would describe the guitars as having a very smooth mellow sound, no harshness there at all.

Attachment:
IMG_5760.JPG


Attachment:
IMG_7990.JPG


edit: whoops, don't know why the pics are wrong orientation. pm me if you have interest in some sets


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Did Mario ever reveal the big secret of what this wood actually is or is Katz to forever remain a mystery wood?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Didn't Mario sell a lot of Lutz? I have some (non-Mario) Lutz with that type of coloring, although it's not exclusive to the hybrid...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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The wood will be one of two things, either West Coast Hemlock or Balsam Fir. I cut a bit of both when I was in Terrace but didn't bring any with me. I am in Alberta now and will be setting up my sawmill again this spring and may cut some but I have over 300 Lutz tops still so don't really feel a strong desire to acquire more wood when these tops on hand make fine guitars. But for any of you that want to experiment, those two species will get you where you want to be and should be fairly readily available in lumber form that you could re-saw.

Thanks
Shane

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:49 pm 
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J De Rocher wrote:
Did Mario ever reveal the big secret of what this wood actually is or is Katz to forever remain a mystery wood?

Taken to the grave that one. He launched it together with Cumpiano. Maybe someone needs to interrogate him. ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:12 pm 
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DannyV wrote:
J De Rocher wrote:
Did Mario ever reveal the big secret of what this wood actually is or is Katz to forever remain a mystery wood?

Taken to the grave that one. He launched it together with Cumpiano. Maybe someone needs to interrogate him. ;)


I visited with Bill Cumpiano a number of years ago when I was out that way. He had already purchased tops from me at that time so discussed wood in general. While I was there he asked me if I was cutting Hemlock as he had tried it before and liked the result but wanted more to work with. My time was limited and my order log too large to spend time processing wood that would not, in the short term anyway, see the acceptance that spruce had so I did not look into this. My visit with Bill is one of the reasons that I believe Hemlock is probably the species here. It is definitely one of the two though. There aren't a lot of other options, the price and volume of the wood processed was low so it had to be local (despite Mario's claims) as transportation costs would eat all of the profit and then some. There is no Douglas Fir in the area or larger Pine. We have Spruce, Hemlock, Balsam Fir and Western Red Cedar in commercial volumes. All four species would make a decent sounding guitar but the structural nature of spruce, longer fibre and lower specific gravity, make it the superior choice in my opinion.

Shane

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These users thanked the author Shane Neifer for the post (total 2): Pmaj7 (Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:09 pm) • J De Rocher (Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:18 pm)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:19 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I didn't get the impression that Mario was running a "high volume operation". ;). I could be wrong, though.

There was some suspicion that the wood may have been white spruce or a hybrid thereof... White spruce has earned the nickname "cat spruce" because of the smell... Hence the suspicion with the name "Katz"...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:53 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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truckjohn wrote:
I didn't get the impression that Mario was running a "high volume operation". ;). I could be wrong, though.

There was some suspicion that the wood may have been white spruce or a hybrid thereof... White spruce has earned the nickname "cat spruce" because of the smell... Hence the suspicion with the name "Katz"...


That could be John. The Lutz Spruce that both Mario and I processed was a White/Sitka hybrid. There was talk about Engelmann forming part of that mix but I remain sceptical in that assertion as I was told by the forest technicians and research scientists in the area that Engelmann only played in for trees above 3,500 feet. At that elevation in the Skeena drainage the trees are small and gnarly. The best trees came from 900 to 2000 feet. So white spruce is certainly prevalent in the area, almost for certain all of it in this area was hybridized. But with Mario's naming system maybe he found some Spruce that looked or felt a bit different than the stuff he typically harvested. When he moved from Terrace out to Rosswood he was closer to the Nass Watershed where the hybridization components may have been a bit different with maybe a bit more White Spruce influence than we saw in Terrace. I do recall Mario saying that this was not spruce but who knows.....he didn't really like me much when we stopped working together.

Shane

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Last edited by Shane Neifer on Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.


These users thanked the author Shane Neifer for the post: JSDenvir (Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:31 pm)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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300 lutz tops! Wow.... And I bet those weren't the duds.

I think you need to come back online... You really did make some truly high quality tops.



These users thanked the author truckjohn for the post: edstrummer (Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:15 am)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:40 pm 
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The Katz wood came from Tumbler Ridge BC in the eastern part of the province.

Bob


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Shane Neifer wrote:
DannyV wrote:
J De Rocher wrote:
Did Mario ever reveal the big secret of what this wood actually is or is Katz to forever remain a mystery wood?

Taken to the grave that one. He launched it together with Cumpiano. Maybe someone needs to interrogate him. ;)


I visited with Bill Cumpiano a number of years ago when I was out that way. He had already purchased tops from me at that time so discussed wood in general. While I was there he asked me if I was cutting Hemlock as he had tried it before and liked the result but wanted more to work with. My time was limited and my order log too large to spend time processing wood that would not, in the short term anyway, see the acceptance that spruce had so I did not look into this. My visit with Bill is one of the reasons that I believe Hemlock is probably the species here. It is definitely one of the two though. There aren't a lot of other options, the price and volume of the wood processed was low so it had to be local (despite Mario's claims) as transportation costs would eat all of the profit and then some. There is no Douglas Fir in the area or larger Pine. We have Spruce, Hemlock, Balsam Fir and Western Red Cedar in commercial volumes. All four species would make a decent sounding guitar but the structural nature of spruce, longer fibre and lower specific gravity, make it the superior choice in my opinion.

Shane

I would be surprised if you couldn't find a Hemlock worthy of a decent guitar top. They come in a variety of density and hardness. I'm pretty sure the long grain stiffness and strength is a little weak. I've had my power knocked out twice and the corner of my wood shed taken out all by Hemlock. There's not many growing in my yard but they do like to break in the wind.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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The traditional issue with hemlock is ring shake. That makes lumber kinda dicey and why you just don't see it. It would otherwise be a great wood.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:03 pm 
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Bob Shanklin wrote:
The Katz wood came from Tumbler Ridge BC in the eastern part of the province.

Bob


Likely an Engelmann/White Spruce hybrid then Similiar to the wood sold out of the Kootney's and that Larry Stamm used to produce.

Shane

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Shane Neifer wrote:
Bob Shanklin wrote:
The Katz wood came from Tumbler Ridge BC in the eastern part of the province.

Bob


Likely an Engelmann/White Spruce hybrid then Similiar to the wood sold out of the Kootney's and that Larry Stamm used to produce.

Shane

Shane, Good to see your posts again. Do you know if Larry Stamm is still in the tone wood biz?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Shane - I don't know much about conifer hybrids. How hard or easy is it to identify a Lutz (or Katz) hybrid tree in the wild? Are they visibly different enough to allow a clear easy ID? Also, how consistent or varied are traits between individual hybrid trees produced from the same two parent species? I'm guessing the mix of parental genes isn't necessarily 50/50 and varies over some range of proportions between individual hybrid trees which would affect traits of individual hybrids. I'm wondering if the wood from one Lutz tree has good characteristics for guitar tops, does another Lutz tree necessarily have the same good qualities since it's a different hybrid?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:04 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I've often wondered the same thing. It's not all the same, that's for sure. I've had lutz range from .32g/k3-.47. So, all over the place.

It's the same as any other type of wood. Being the right species is not enough in itself to make it good quality for our purposes.

It's still my favorite.


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