Official Luthiers Forum!

I was reading a gun forum and someone was talking about tool rental or loans. Gunsmithing requires expensive tools that are only used once so naturally the conversation comes up.

Plenty of people talk about needing to do refret, dresses, nut job, etc. and asking about ways to do this without a set of nut file, but if they're doing only a couple of guitars it makes no sense to spend 1000 dollars at Stewmac for tools.

So I was wondering are there any interest in tool loans or rental? You know for stuff like saddle slot jig, nut files, JAWS fret press, radius blocks, reamers, etc.?

Obviously this will be US only (unless the borrower wants to pay international shipping) but I wonder how it sounds?

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

"but I wonder how it sounds?"

Problematic. A good way to lose tools.

Any of the jobs mentioned and most guitar building tasks can be done with simple commonly available hand tools. It may take more time and trouble but the end result can be just as good.

Speaking for myself, I don't like my tools, guitar or otherwise, to leave my shop. I'm more than happy to help friends, or their' friends, in my shop. Having said that, I lent a jigsaw and blades to a friend, yesterday, and got them back today, but he is rather generous with his $200 whiskey!

Alex

_________________
"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

I give away guitars, but I do not lend my tools.
Too many screw drivers that were used as pry bars and hammers.

_________________
wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

Ask your local librarian about what percentage of the books they loan are never returned, require repair or replacement due to abuse from the borrower etc

I do let people I know pretty well rent "shop time", where they come in and use certain pieces of machinery under my direct supervision. This is for general woodworking stuff, not luthiery. Lotta people who just wanna build one coffee table but don't have the machinery to process roughsawn lumber etc.

No way would I ever let people take tools home with them. Especially small, delicate, valuable and easily loseable tools like those used for fretwork etc.

Besides, I want people who require fretwork to pay ME (or another colleague in the industry) to do it. Don't really wanna aid and abet the unskilled to butcher their valued instruments and lose my tools at the same time




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When I was an auto mechanic (long time ago) is was standard practice to never loan a tool. Of course, there were exceptions. Another mechanic was a common one. They knew what they cost. I got a laugh out of a fellow mechanic one time. He had a policy of sometimes loaning tools.... If he didn't know the borrower very well. I said huh? He said a friend knows you and will assume "he's a buddy, I'll get it back to him later", whereas someone who doesn't know him well will think "I better get this back pronto, I don't know him, he may get mad".
I don't loan tools, I have enough hassles tracking my tools down from my sons that help themselves. Not to mention my wife.

Ok, I understand people damaging or not returning them.

This isn't aimed at those who do it for a living, but those who do it as a hobby who don't want to spend 120 dollars on a reamer just to do a simple hole.

I think the way they want to do it on the gun forum is to make the borrower pay a deposit that cover the replacement cost of the tool, and then when the tool is returned the deposit would be refunded, minus the shipping or whatever fee. That way if someone doesn't return it, you'd have money to buy another one.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

First, before I say what I say below, I have no interest in being part of a rental system for tools. No offense.

But, if I were going to put something like that together, here is what I would do:

1. Determine who your typical customer is. I don't think it is the professional builder or the serious hobby builder. Those folks are going to buy their own sets of the specialty tools you are thinking of. I think the customer you are trying to reach is someone who is building their first guitar (or maybe second or third). "What is the minimum stuff I need to build a guitar" is one of the most common questions you hear from first time builders. They are the ones who feel the pain you are trying to alleviate. Meet their need, and you might have something.

2. Determine what specific tools you will include in the box that you rent out. There are some obvious things: a 3 or 5 degree reamer, nut files, fret files, etc. Lots of the Stew-mac doo-dads. The Dremel router base, the Dremel circle cutter, the Dremel binding ledge router, all that stuff. You can't send big, heavy stuff. You might have to have separate kits for separate tasks.

3. Determine how to charge (daily, weekly, whatever) and how much to charge. This should include all costs (initial cost of the tools, shipping, repair and replacement, whatever) and some profit for your trouble.

4. Determine how to enforce the rental agreement. The best way is probably with some sort of actual cash deposit paid via PayPal, held until the safe return of the kit.

I bet there are first time builders who would take advantage of your service. However, I doubt you would ever get rich off providing such a service, and advertising (i.e., reaching the intended customer) will always be a struggle.

If you are instead thinking of this as a public service or as a tool cooperative, I wish you luck, but I predict lots of headaches. Again, no offense. Somebody has to buy the stuff to begin with, and that person will rightly feel like she/he should get something for the trouble and expense of buying the stuff. The "I don't want to own anything, I just want to rent it for a day" way of thinking is cool and progressive and I support it, but it only works if someone else takes on the burden of actually buying the stuff and providing it for occasional use by others. Who is that person going to be in your scenario?

I'm all for getting other people involved in anything I am doing. If I've learned only 10% of something I'm already willing to take folks who are at 0 and get them to 10. It's just in my nature to share knowledge, however small, with anyone who will listen to me. Conversely, I will listen to you tell me a 1 hour story I've heard a thousand times on the off chance there is something new in it.

When I first read this I thought it could be a neat idea (still do). An enabling factor for the folks who don't have an ability to get all the tooling needed to create an instrument. Don, your quote above tells me something though. This couldn't be a kit because of the time factor. I would be interested to know the average time to complete builds 1-3 compared to 4-6. I'm guessing it is a fraction of the time and I would also bet that #1 is typically way drawn out. So how many kits would you have to have? The rent / return cycle would be on the order of 6+ months which seems impossible to manage.

_________________
Insta - https://www.instagram.com/cbcguitars/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/cbcguitars

Brad--

Repeating my disclaimer: I don't want to do this. But, if somebody were to do it, I think they would have to split the kits up by task. So, the special tools you need to make a nut can go in one kit. The special tools needed to cut the rosette channels can go in another kit. The special tools needed for binding can go in another kit. You are right, it can't all be one kit, or the rental agreement would be for at least a half year at a time. Sorry, I should have made that clearer.

I can see a local group purchasing a larger piece of machinery that all could use. Individual small tool sets? Not so much.

_________________
Greg
http://garibaldiinstruments.com/