Official Luthiers Forum!

Well, I finally got my bodies back last week. No necks though and I'm really at the end of my rope here. I was told they'd be shipped last week via 3-day but haven't seen them yet. I can't get a tracking number from them either. As said before, I was told they were done at the beginning of November and I paid at that time.

If they're not at my door today, it's time to gather uncle Vito and the boys and take a little trip.

My point here is...Be careful who you send your instruments to. I have some very angry customers who were told they would have their instrument before the New Year and I still can't tell them when to expect delivery.

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Don Sharp
Got Brazilian?
http://www.sharpguitars.com

First rule of custom commission work explain up front tht you never promise a firm delivery date too many things can jump up and bite you. Guess how I know

I know, I know. But, I shipped these out at the beginning of September. That's usually would have left me plenty of time, don't you think? You're right though. Now that I've had this experience, I know better.     

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Don Sharp
Got Brazilian?
http://www.sharpguitars.com

Who is the finisher? Well don't think we should rag on them but just curious.

I think the (who) is better left in PM's

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

good point

I had a similar experience...

Then I started working with Tony and it has been bliss ever since.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

For those of you considering sending out your instruments for finishing, consider our own fellow OLFer...Joe White. Check out Hesh's pics from a week or so ago.

Before formally opening his business recently, he lacquer finished an OM for me about a year ago and did all the right things! He will be featuring catalyzed polyester finishes.

I can personally vouch for his abilities as well as his fine character.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

  it is unfortunate that these things happen,  a very wise person once told me  to " never make a commitment  based on someone elses committment " and I have noticed over the years , whenever I have ignored this rule, it has led to heartache .  Jody

Hmmm, could it be the same person who had one of my guitars for 6 months and did absolutely nothing to it? (except finally send it back to me untouched after about 20 angry phone calls)

And yes, Tony is awesome! (but I kinda hate to say it cus I don't want him to get tooooo busy)

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

I think this person's identity should be revealed as a fair warning to those that might get caught in his snare of obvious deceit....whether he is a plain simple liar or an addict of some sort is irrelevant...what matters is that he's not performing the work he has promised and that is of course affecting the bottom line of others who are depending on him..

maybe just use admin powers to PM everyone....business practices such as this have always p!ssed me off to no end...

Defeats the purpose of the forum if the name of such a poor business can't be revealed. Unfounded slamming, yes, that should only be done in private, but if I get rolled by a supplier or whatever, in a really bad way, and another member can back my bad experience with a bad experience also, it should be revealed.

We warm each other about bad glues by brand name, bad truss rods by brand name, bad woods by name, etc... Why be hushed now? Spill the name...

[QUOTE=Kent Chasson]

Hmmm, could it be the same person who had one of my guitars for 6 months and did absolutely nothing to it? (except finally send it back to me untouched after about 20 angry phone calls)

[/QUOTE]

OUCH!

    If this were a case of full blown failure to deliver in a reasonable or
timely fashion, I would say address the guy and begin to call him on a
daily basis to ensure that you and your guitars will get his attention.
Unfortunately, this isn't that kind of situation, in my opinion.

    He delivered the bodies and I would guess that the necks are following
soon so there has been work done. If he had held your guitars and one
nothing at all for six months, by all means, go after him, but if he has any
workload at all moving through his spray booth, four months isn't
unreasonable.

    Be careful when thnking about doing damage to another person's
reputation or business whether in public forum or through personal
messages. It can be a thing that will come back to bite you in the future
when you have a string of unexpected setbacks pop up during one of
your builds and your customer expects you to snap your fingers and
make them all go away while buildng their guitar.

    Guys who choose this type of action as their default answer for the
time that it takes others to do their work have their own repuatations for
being those who build huge glass houses and throw stones across the
street from their front lawn. They're everywhere and we even have a few
here at the OLF. Little do they know that their reputations for doing it
have been well established.

   The best piece of advice given in this thread so far comes from Jody in
the suggestion to, "Never make a commitment based on someone else's
commitment."

    One of the most important and necessary phrases in your commission
agreement should read something to the effect of, "All projected dates of
completion for individual steps in the construction process as well as the
over completion of the guitar are purely estimated and are subject to
change without notice. All such dates are not guaranteed or binding." If
you don't have a commission agreement or contract, draw one up and be
sure to include a clause that allows for adjustment of estimated times if
unexpected trouble pops up.

   Give him a call and even have your customers give him a call to ask
about the status of their individual guitars if necessary.

   One sure way to eliminate the possibility fo this happening again in th
future is to make the heavy cash investment in pro quality spray gear and
an approved spray booth and then throw yourself into the prospect of
learning finish applcation and work while developing you technique and
skill to achieve a professional finish. With that huge financial and time
investment comes the freedom to finish your own guitars and to have full
control over the finish outcome and schedule.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Kevin is right. If you want to know who the guy is then email Don but don't
post his name in a thread that can damage his reputation forever. For what
its worth, I have dealt with this guy before and there always was a delay -
but a very reasonable delay. The quality was very good but not excellent.
Tony Ferguson is one of the best finish guys out there and his work is truly
excellent. I am looking forward to reviews of Joe's work. The main issue for
me is a THIN finish and hopefully Joe can deliver on that. If so, it will be nice
to have another option because with Tony's quality and service, he is going
to only get busier.

This is from the OLF code of conduct:

"Platform for Personal Attacks.  The OLF is
not a pulpit to punish suppliers who you feel have wronged you.  This
includes Ebay vendors.  If you have a problem with a vendor or a
purchase please take it up with them.  This also goes for personal
disputes; the OLF is not the place for such discussions."

I would hate to see us all lose our forum because of any retribution, threatened or otherwise..... from this supplier/vendor/service provider.  This kind of thread really has no place here.

Thanks.

I will have some pics from Joe very shortly and the actual guitar back probably next week.  The finish is poly and is thin and very hard, what Taylor uses on 200 guitars a day....... 

Joe's turn around time is 20 days or less, his pricing is exceptional, and he is a great guy.

I am also a customer of Tony and his work has always been excellent - no complaints and Tony is highly recommended if you want a cat urethane finish.

I agree with Simon it is great to have some choices in both finish type and the providers. 

My guitar will be checked out by around 10 OLFers in the next several weeks so many opinions on the finish will be available to you all.

I agree. No names. Just learn and take business elsewhere quietly.

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Greg
http://garibaldiinstruments.com/

My reason for talking about a lousy experience is not to get back at the guy who screwed me. It's to save others the headache of learning the hard way, much like a lot of the info here.

That was one big headache Don and I could have been saved had more people shared their experiences.

But I agree that posting it is a bit much, if for no other reason than Lance asked not to.

PM, email, phone. Then it will just be between us and Homeland Security.....

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

MY BAD...

MY intention here was to was to just say be careful and don't make the mistakes I did:
1)Pay some one in full before you know things are on the way.
2)Make any promises about a solid delivery date.

I don't want to slam anyone publicly.

I realize now that I should have kept my mouth shut and I apologize.

_________________
Don Sharp
Got Brazilian?
http://www.sharpguitars.com

No worries Don you were looking for some support and trying to help others avoid a bad situation - nothing wrong with that, in fact thanks for thinking of us!

Maybe I was naive, but I always thought that everybody did their own finishing.  Just how common is it to subcontract out your finish work?

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

     There is a difference between sharing the name of a glue or truss rod
that doesn't work and an instance like this with a person offering and
obviously performing a service.

    When we share our experiences with Titebond, Elmer's or other brands
of glue that haven't worked for us or met our needs and expectations in
guitar buildng, we don't affect the business of the companies making
them. The simple fact of the matter is that they are all great glues that
perform well in other applications and in other industries, but may not
work for us.

    Furniture makers have their favorites, cabinet makers have their
favorites and most have tried other glues that just don;t work in their
fields. Each industry arrives at the materials and supplies that become the
industry standard for achieving the quality expected from the
industry....ours' is no exception.

    The products that we may mention to one another as not being
suitable for use in guitars buildng are still great products with established
user bases.

   When we mention a person who has not delivered a service in the time
frame that we thought they should deliver it in, a perception of their
integrity and abilities is created that may not be fair or accurate. I used to
feel bad about deliveering later than I'd estimated that I could....until I
found that every builder on the planet has had the very same thing
happen on a fairly consistent basis.

    We work in an unpredictable format and environment wih the organic
nature of our materials and the effects that their surrounding
environment hav on them. Like I said earlier, the best alternative to
openly and publicly complaining about someone's service or delivery
timeline is to invest in being able to actually perform the service that they
are offering for yourself.

    Human nature is much like water in that it follows the path of least
resistence as it flows to the lowest place available to settle.....unless, of
course, if it is controlled and directed to higher ground. It's a discipline,
and so is a bit of work, to control it, but it's well worth the effort.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

[QUOTE=ToddStock] If names were named, this guy would not have grounds to sue Lance and Brock, right?[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. As we continue to say... each member must stand by his/her own words. We are simply providing a service. We are not policing the accuracy of any statment -- this or otherwise.

However, that doesn't mean we won't get in a tangle. But I don't think we would have a lot to worry about.

Besides... unless you outright lie, there is no reason for anyone to worry. If it were me I would simply say.

Look at the finish I got from XXXXXX and take pictures of it. Don't make any value judgement, let the images speak for themselves.   


... but on a larger note, here is my concern.

I think disputes shoudl first be settled between those involved. I am very reluctant for anyone to use the "power" of the forum as a club to beat suppliers with. As I am sure you can imagine that also invites abuse.

I agree with Mario, part of the value of the community helps us avoid stepping in holes like this, but we need to tread very carefully here.

I would much prefer people to first work out their differences in private.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

All that needs to be said by anyone is, "Please PM me the name of the finisher and tell me of your experience so that I can avoid future problems." Then the forum has served its purpose and nobody gets publicly stoned.

How much more simple could it be? Let's not create another mountain out of a molehill!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com