Official Luthiers Forum!

First of all, I'd like to say hi to everyone. I'm new to this forum. I'm sure you guys have all been asked this question a lot, but I was really curious as to what exactly would be the best way to get into this field. I've read different things from different sources. Some say that trying to get in as an apprentice under an experienced Luthier is best and other say attending a Luthiery school is best.

I'm a 22-year-old currently living in NYC. I play guitar and I had something of an epiphany earlier this year that made me realize that more than studying to be a teacher, my real passion was in music. I began to wonder which direction I wanted to approach this passion from so I considered everything from sound engineering to pursuing a major in performance. But I realized that I have a real passion for the instruments themselves. At this point in my life, I know it's a bit late to start completely new, but I have a conviction that I want to be around instruments and that I want to not only make beautiful and great-sounding instruments, but I also want to help others get the most out of their own instruments and to repair their instruments when damage occurs.

The dilemma here is this: I have no woodworking experience.

None of my schools ever had shop classes and I don't have any relation to anyone in any woodworking or carpentry field. I am unfamiliar with the use of power tools or most tools in general. I bought a few books, but I'm honestly not sure where exactly to start... I can't seem to find a school for Luthiery in NYC (are there even any?) and even if I found an experienced luthier, I doubt he'd be willing to take someone that has absolutely no starting knowledge... Maybe I'm wrong, but I've really never approached someone to ask if I can study under them so I wouldn't know. I feel that I'm a fairly quick learner once I have some guidance so yeah... What would be the best path for me to get into this field? Do people usually gain some general woodworking experience and knowledge of tools before going to a school or undertaking an apprenticeship? If so, what's the best way to gain this experience? Also, what is the best way to approach a person to ask if I can study as an apprentice under him?

As much conviction as I have, I feel a bit lost in an unfamiliar world that I only recently discovered. Any input would be of great help. Thanks.

Welcome to the forum, Michael. You will probably find most if not all your answers here. Although, I built my first from scratch, I had a lot of woodworking experience and all the big tools, so I can't really help there. Most will probably suggest you start with a kit. If you get a serviced kit you will only need a minimum of tools and it will be a good way to make sure you're heading in the direction you want to go. If you decide you don't like building, you won't be out much and if you become addicted like the rest of us, you will have gained enough experience to start building one from scratch. Also, there are several members here in your area, and they will add more than their 2 cents worth soon.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Welcome, Michael!
Goodness, you talk like you are over-the-hill.
I didn't build my first guitar until the tender age of 27. And, I had no schooling in lutherie, or experience under a master. It can be done.
I like Ron's advice, and would suggest contacting Evan Gluck. He's a great guy, knows his stuff, and is willing to help you when you get stumped. (There are probably others in your area, but Evan is the only one I know.)
I also like his idea of starting with a kit. And a good instructional CD or video. As you go along, you will either love it or hate it, and will have proved a valuable point to yourself either way.

Add to that a bunch of guys here at the OLF who are willing and able to help, and you're off and running.

By the way, I'm training a new guy right now--who is 28--who has NO woodworking experience either. It can be done.

Best of luck to you,
Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Welcome to the OLF!

Good advice from both above for sure

I would recommend that you spend a few weeks going through the OLF Archives. Luthiery is an investment in both time and money like most hobbies. You can certainly count on alot of walk through help here from some of the masters that dwell here.

You can start with a Kit (which I think most would recommend) StewMac has a great tutorial download on their site. Blues Creek another sponsor has Kits and will prove to be great help as well. Read all you can find and run through some of these video tutorials to get a feel for what you need and how to approach your project. We have many suppliers of tonewoods, equipment, tools, molds and virtually everything you could want or need to pursue this interest here from our sponsors.

I recommend jumping right in, you will find it good for the soul

Mike
White Oak, Texas

Good to have you! The only woodworking experience I had before luthiery was in a 7th grade woodshop class building a very boring nightstand, and I'm still very much a beginner. Be patient. Learn all you can from multimedia and books. Buy Guitarmaking by Cumpiano and Natelson, it is full of alot of useful information on just about everything. It provides a good deal of info on using old-fashioned hand tools to get alot of the procedures down. Start with a kit if money for tooling up is a problem. It has taken me a great deal of time tooling up, and I still have a ways to go. Make sure you learn about using all of your equipment safely, and above all; have fun! The forum archives is also a vast library of useful info.

Welcome....This is a great place and ask all the questions that you want
As said above, start with a kit

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Hi Michael!

I think we're somewhat similar. I'm 25 and studying to be a teacher
(English/reading specialist). When I was 18 I was accepted to a music
school and almost went, but decided not to.

My honest advice is to pursue this as a side occupation. I build a lot of
things on the side, not just instruments. It's still loads of fun. I don't
have first hand experience, but I primarily hear about struggles from
most guys doing this full time that weren't financially established from
prior careers.

Hi Michael,
You will definitely get some good advice on this forum. I was in a VERY
similar positon as you a few years ago - so here is my story.

I started building guitars right out of college as a side hobby. I was about
to enter a doctorate program in virology and was saving some extra
money by working in a lab for a year. I realized very early on that I hate
working for "the man" and that I absolutely loved guitar building. I had
no woodworking experience but knew that I wanted to pursue lutherie as
a vocation eventually.

I worked for about 3.5 years and saved up enough money to buy all the
tooling I needed and enough savings to get me thru about six months
with no income. I quit my job last May, worked like crazy for 8 months
developing and experimenting and just began my guitar business in
January.

There are several guitar building schools where you can learn the trade
very quickly. However, outfitting a shop is expensive and the market is
extremely tight for handmade guitars. So the financial aspect of getting a
business of the ground could be problematic depending on your
monetary situation. I think most of us would suggest building a guitar
from a kit first before you dedicated yourself. If you really love it, the
fastest method would be to go to a school and then try and apprentice
under someone or work in a repair shop and save money for your own
shop and business.

I see a lot of sense in the way I approached lutherie. I was able to work at
a job and save money all the while honing my skills and outfitting my
shop. But it did take me 3 years of working.

Best of luck,
Simon

Hey Michael, Welcome!

You know Ive worked in carpentry doing home renovations for over ten years and guess what...it didnt prepare me at all for luthiery. Making a guitar requires a whole new skill set than installing crown moulding!

The tools are very specific and important. Get a copy of the LMI and Stewmac catalog and study them like religious texts. If there is a GOOD tool shop in your area start hanging out there and get to know the hardware.

I think you also have to get use to the idea that a week of work can be destroyed in an instant.

I see it as a quest that will take years to master, so you have to be able to enjoy the scenery!

  22??????????? I'm 54 and just getting in to this, hope I've got time left               

         Red

Oh yea, 2 words "John Mayes" check out his DVD's

                              Red

as one who also learned as i went, i would like to offer a contrary opinion. if you can financially afford it, go to a school. i don't mean one of the short course schools, but one of the two year or longer programs that are offered around the country. you will learn enough to be able to be an attractive hire for one of the small factory builders, or a busy repair shop, or to venture out on your own, with the support of a day job, and be able to do good work.

regardless of how you learn, just as in any field of endeavour, acquiring the necessary skills and experience to function as an independent and economically viable entity takes time.

you're lucky,in that at your age you have it.

[QUOTE=Telfer] Hey Michael, Welcome!
I think you also have to get use to the idea that a week of work can be destroyed in an instant.
[/QUOTE]


Sigh....Don't remind me of that....

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Here is a different angle.   It sounds like you already have college credits. There are 3 colleges in NYS that offer Technology Education programs. Buffalo, Oswego, and one near NYC I think. You will take many different lab classes that involve using tools and machines. You graduate with a degree in Tech ed. This is an area where you can get a job fairly easily, as there aren't too many graduates at this time.
     Teaching allows you to have a decent income while you hone your luthiery skills. You won't become a millionaire, but it is reasonably secure and provides you with July and August to do your luthiery ( after you get your master's degree).

Michael, you're at a great point in your life for making a choice like this.

If you're in school now, or planning on going to school, I recommend that you switch to a lutherie school. Some that I know of that have longer-term instruction are Roberto-Venn, the Galloup School of Lutherie, and the Southeast Technical College in Red Wing, MN (many of the local repair people went through this program). There are other schools, too, and a little Web searching will turn them up. Most of them stress that no prior woodworking experience is necessary. At the Southeast Technical College, for example, there's a class that's an introduction to tools.

I also recommend that you talk to someone in the field, if you can, to get a sense of what they like and don't like about it. I'm sure there are experienced folks on this forum who'd be happy to have a phone conversation with you (I'd volunteer, but I haven't even built a guitar yet).

I'm 55 and trying to figure out how I'm going to send myself to one of these schools; believe me, it's a lot easier at 22 than 55.

Best of luck to you!

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John Cavanaugh
Saint Paul, MN
"What could possibly go wrong?"

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] [QUOTE=WaddyT] Waddy you will be fine but don't decide to French polish that coffin - you will never get it done in time..... [/QUOTE]

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Dang, where is that Edit Button?  Hesh, I'm thinking Pine Box.  I still have my nail gun.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

[QUOTE=terken] I agree with Michael McClain. If you want to pursue a career in building and
repair and support yourself you need to go to an established training
program like the one in Red Wing MN, Brian Gallop's, or Roberto-Venn.
Then you've got credibility and access to good job placement opportunities.
[/QUOTE]

I agree with the professional training recommendation. (I'm a retired teacher and hobbyist luthier-on and off- since the 1970s.)
You are young (very) and probably unencumbered by huge responsibilities. Get a serious education rather than messing about with building a guitar in your apartment.

Another possibility to consider if you are adventurous is to study in UK/Europe. I know that the London College of Furniture (really!) has a well-respected program in traditional instrument-making. No doubt some of the UK and European folks here at OLF can give other suggestions. There are sometimes scholarship (and quota) opportunities for foreign students, so this is not as far-fetched as it might sound. You might even be able to snag a Fulbright Scholarship for foreign study.

Cheers

John

[QUOTE=Marty M.] Here is a different angle.   It sounds like you already have college credits. There are 3 colleges in NYS that offer Technology Education programs. Buffalo, Oswego, and one near NYC I think. You will take many different lab classes that involve using tools and machines. You graduate with a degree in Tech ed. This is an area where you can get a job fairly easily, as there aren't too many graduates at this time.
     Teaching allows you to have a decent income while you hone your luthiery skills. You won't become a millionaire, but it is reasonably secure and provides you with July and August to do your luthiery ( after you get your master's degree).
[/QUOTE]

This is an interesting idea (probably what I should have done 40 years ago), but if the original poster has decided he doesn't want to teach, he should stay well away from the front of the classroom! It can be a very long year if you are pining for the end of June, to start your 'real life'. I saw it in colleagues from time to time and it wasn't a happy situation for anybody.

John

John, My comments were just something to consider. Teaching isn't for everybody, and it is harder today than it ever was, but it kind of gives one the best of both worlds in this particular situation. I was sitting in the student union of a community college 30 years ago when a guy at my table told me about the IA program that he flunked out of. I wouldn't have ever given teaching a first thought for a career unless this scenario happened. It has provided me with a fun and rewarding career with the bonus of being able to build guitars :-).

Marty-
I thought your suggestion was excellent. No criticism intended.
BTW, I loved going to work in the classroom every day of my career. Like you,I was lucky in my career choice. To do something that is fun, puts food on the table, and helps other people in a very direct way is a real privilege.

John