Official Luthiers Forum!

Filippo, I did answer the OP's question directly. You might have seen it if you weren't in such a hurry to find some fault. What are you eating for breakfast these days? And where did I say "everyone should have one of these"? Please don't bother answering; the questions are merely rhetorical. Perhaps the OP can clarify what he was asking for, rather than you doing it for him. I took him to be asking for some general recommendations, rather than taking a poll of individual favorites. IMO my inference was quite reasonable.

This is actually the second time you have taken it upon yourself to be personally offended by a post of mine that was not directed at you, and that offered someone a suggestion about how to proceed that was relevant to their question. If you have some kind of problem with me or how I express myself, I'd suggest you take it up with me in email.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Fillippo- we don't know each other, but I did not get your take from Howard. He has always been very direct, but not small. These questions so often draw out strong loyalties about small things. I also enjoy your posts and usually I expect objective attitude and often some humor in your approach to things.

I am embarrassed by how "over-tooled" I am for my meager luthierie related output, but as a result I have put many brands(especially handtools) to use and felt I could cover some options and then suggest a good for the money chisel brand. My impression of the topic was an invitation to express preferences and experience. Because I have too many, I also believe that suggestions on how many are needed, ways to save dollars, and kind(s) needed are valuable to all who are interested in the issue. And, the truth is, I could get along with 3-4 chisels, total, for guitar work.

If many of you read that recent thread on planes, you all can tell I have been up to my neck in those as well. Some of my oldies are perfect for my needs and a few of the luxury brands are great workers and just plane<G> fun to eyeball. I haven't even had a need yet for my Skew rabbet planes(lefty from LV-Veritas; righty is original Stanley two-eighty something)BUT, I'm surely ready.

When it comes to rifles, handguns and shotguns, I have always tried to buy an item with good holding power on resale and for some of the handtools, I take the same approach. So there is more than one reason to buy the fancy stuff. mt

Wow. What a great discussion. Thanks so much for the suggestions. Todd, you've always been a huge help and Howard, your experience and insight is invaluable to this forum, so thank you for volunteering your knowledge (for FREE, I might add). It is greatly appreciated and valued.

What I could have included in the OP was that I was hoping to find quality in something $50 or less. I understand that you get what you pay for, but certainly some are better than others in whatever pricepoint one is looking for, especially if its for one specific purpose.

Like I said, I’m looking to mostly carve bracing with it. They’ll be some neck carving as well, but mostly braces. As far as the glue goes, I usually sharpen an offcut and clean it up once it skins over, but there’s inevitably that one spot that I miss or forget, or I get distracted after the glue-up and can’t get back to it, so its rare, but important.

I’ll keep an eye out for some worthy vintage chisels and keep my economy version chisels around for carving my carbon laminate braces that chew through everything.
Thanks again for the suggestions and input.

-j.

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“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

I'm I the only one who dislikes the geometry of the blades on those Blue Spruce chisels? Their edges are concave with a quite small radius, and I find them uncomfortable to hold. The steel takes and retains and edge just fine, and they are very pretty I guess, but I'll be selling mine.



Well, I'm a Scandinavian, and yes, I have a Berg story or two... Actually, I know a carpenter who's last name is Berg, he played bass in my band in the '80's, and boy, could I ever tell a story or two about him! Much more interesting than a stupid chisel story, anyways.

Anyways...


In these discussions, I always recommend vintage Scandinavian chisels like Berg, Eskilstuna, Kongsberg (of Norway, hoooray!), Jernbolaget etc., so I'm glad to see some others doing it too. Up here they are all you are likely to find, if you go hunting for chisels in flea markets etc, as they were the common hardware store brands back in the day. Love 'em!

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Hey Arnt, I have to agree. I have a 1/2" Blue Spruce and I am not sold on the feel of that chisel either. My favourite brace carver remains my Sorby 1/2" paring chisel. I have heard lots about how poor these chisels hold an edge but I don't find that to be true, especially for the easy work of brace carving, the edge is not subjected to any real stresses and these are paring chisels, meant for lighter more precise work anyway! The Sorby in my hands feels much more balanced than the Blue Spruce and is 1/2 the price (right in your $50 range J.) I also find the blade geaometry of the Blue Spruce different but that might be an issue that just requires some getting used too but it will be hard to get used to something you are not using.... I also use an ibex plane for pealing off larger amounts of material.

Shane

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Canada

I like my Two Cherries chisels. Probably run $20-$25 each.

Gee -J $50 will by you a couple of sets of really nice brand spankin new and used only once by some dudes great grandfather who was a luthier and everything else in between on ebay.

In fact for $5o bucks you might even be interested in that set of BRW handle chisels that the Elves make.

Well maybe.

peace and carrots

Padma


Ps: We hear tell about American and British and Swedish steel, well dudes...you should pay some attention to Indian Steel. Yup das right. India has steel. Lots and lots of iron to make da steel with and just so happen to produce some very high quality stuff...of course, we never hear of it over here but is true...me no lead you down the garden path... well not intentionally.

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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The Blue handled Marples are a good deal if you can find the ones that were made in Sheffield, they are sold under a different brand name, but look the same. Check to see if they say Sheffield, England on the shaft. ~$40 for a set of 4 if I remember correctly. Lee Valley had a couple sizes of ht eblack handled version these on their clearance page recently at $10 ea.

Narex is another good choice if looking for a good low-cost chisel.

Most of my brace carving is with finger planes, but my favorite chisel for places they won't reach is a double bevel Pfiel carving chisel. For bench chisels, my favorites are old 1/2 and 3/4" Stanleys that I inherited. good steel, good feel, and good vibes.

-jd

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A sharp one, with the appropriate size/shape/weight for the job at hand.

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Jim Hansen

I can only speak for the one Blue Spruce I have, a 1/4 "dovetail paring" type and I think the shape is made on purpose for easier access in tight corners. For what I do with it (rosette, pockets, only 1-hand use) I can't complain at all, although I can well see the sharp sides being a problem in other applications.

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Build log

Here are some of my flea market specials. Only one had a handle that was not either broken or missing, so I turned new ones that fit my hand. Shellac is a fine finish for handles as it will not chip even from sharp hammer blows.

Close up. I've never seen anything but tanged chisels over here, and I believe many of them were sold without handles originally, and carpenters were expected to make their own.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I have a set of Crown Chisels that I like just fine. They hold an edge and are nice in my hand. I think I paid around $50 for the 4 piece set - 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 1".

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I like the Two Cherries/Hisch Chisels. Good edge. Comfortable, affordable.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Ok..show and tell is it.

All from the 30s and 40s mainly, Beaver, Bergs and Jernbolagets from Eskilstuna, and one Kongsberg from Norway.

Beavers were a Canadian thing in the 40's made by Berg.

Only 2 original handles and 2 without handles that some idiot wailed away on with steel hammer. but hey dudes... all sockets and nope dey is not for sale as long as me alive.




Some I inherited and some were bought. The highest price
paid for one was $5.00 at a junk store...most peoples just don't know what they are other than an old chisel and like ya know "$20 will get me a whole new set of nice shiny ones at the Uncle Wally store so I'll offer you a buck for this rusted old chisel". But they are becoming harder to find as time goes on. Sockets haven't been made since the early 50's.

A handle can always be glued back into a socket but once a tang has cracked a handle...well thats pretty well it for that handle.

Ya right.


blessings

Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Cool handles. I especially like the 3rd from the left with the flattened oval thingie.

Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

Ya thats the one that cost $5. The steel was in mint condition but no handle. So me slapped some box wood on the lathe and spun up a handle...that flattened oval is the bark on the box wood stick.

peace and carotts

Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Not to upset the apple cart Padma, but Japanese chisels are struck with a traditional steel hammer. Hence the top hoop designed for the purpose I guess.

???? If you are refering to Padma's comment about someone ruining the chisels by hitting with a steel hammer I invite you to look closely at the picture of his chisels. You will see a mushroomed socket where some yo-yo was hitting it with a steel hammer with out a handle in the socket. Not good. I think he knows what the hoop is for on a Japanese chisel. Steel hammer ok: on Japanese chisels with hoops and plastic handles with metal bumpers on top. Euro type wood handles with hoops ok with careful "tapping" as well as plastic handles. Let common sense guide you.
Plain wood handles with either leather washers or not : Wood mallets, rubber mallets, rubber or rawhide, or the like type hammers = ok.
Once in a while careful tapping ok with steel hammer. Again let common sense guide you. If you need to wail away at something use the appropriate tool.
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

Yo, Darrel,

Let me help you pickup them spilled apples...

Me talking Swedish and Norwegian steel... not that yaky~shakie, 1960s melted down Detroit steel folded 6,000 times by some ancient Japanese blacksmith sword manufacture that sound like clanging metal in your head when being wailed on with a steel mallet.

Me much prefer the tapping sound of a wooden mallet on a wooden handle. Much easier on the brain cells of which me ain't got many left....the '60 ya know.

Different chisels.


blessings
the
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Ha! I take it back. Of course you know the difference. I probably had some misguided notion that I was pointing out something but upon reading my post again, was obviously one scotch too many in. We had a demonstration last week from an expert on the use of Japanese woodworking tools. I don't think I'd ever fully go there, but it was awfully impressive watching the capabilities of the tools. In particular the planes, which ride on only two and sometimes three points of contact. Particularly in soft woods. the planes create a microscopic "bubble" of wood allowing the blades to actually be slightly recessed in the mouth and allowing for unbelievably, as in a couple of microns, thick shavings. By the way, great chisels. I'm slowly building up my collection of similar animals but have a way to go. And, I use a wood mallet as well (OK, sometimes a small brass carvers mallet).

The only thing I don't like about "Old Rust" is that you never know what the fellow before you did to ruin them... or how the fellow did on the day he made the thing... Quality could be quite variable back in the day -- and some just weren't hardened right.

I have what should be a couple great old chisels...

My 1" Boro... Unfortunately, it just doesn't seem to hold an edge quite like the other decent carbon steel chisels I have.... Someone may have tried to "Sharpen" it on a grinder and got it good and red or done something similarly dumb with a campfire or some such...

My old 1/2" Pexto is decent -- Holds an edge about like my Marples blue handle.... but nothing to write home about.

Both of those chisels took me several hours to get cutting right.... Both probably need to take a trip on Ebay.

I honestly believe Twin Cherries chisels are better steel for the money, as are Narex...

I also have 2-blue spruce chisels... Wouldn't trade them for those old "Magical Chisels" They cut like nobody's business and stay sharp a *LONG* time.... They also strop up very easily...... Just be sure to dub those sharp side edges before filleting your fingers...

What I am finding is that I really don't need a set of chisels -- I really need a few really good chisels... A 3/4", a 1/4", an 1/8" and an itty bitty one.... + 1 cheapie for scraping glue... and that is the advice I would give -- Find yourself a good high quality long blade paring chisel in 1" and 1/4"... Then find a 1/2" cheapie for glue scraping duty. Spend the rest of the Chisel money on some sharpening gear.. and you will be well on the way.

Thanks

John

Narex got a best buy on fww. Bought them. Very happy. Also own a bunch of two cherries. Err on the high side

I guess my best advice is to dig up some fww reviews, make ur decision from there.

O1, A1, 1090, High speed, C-65, Laminated, Blue steel, White steel, Wrought iron, Martinsite, Austinite, Pearlite, Bainite. Cryogenic, Temper embrittlement. Transformation temperature, Transition temperature, ..."The Making Of Tools", by Alex Weygers.

Well, I have a full set of Blue Spruce dovetail chisels and a couple of paring chisels, and I am trading them in, fortunately I already have all the old "Magical Chisels" chisels I need... But you are certainly right that not all old chisels are great, in fact a large percentage of my flea market finds turn out to be utter dogs.



My choice for a single paring chisel would be 19 mm (3/4"), and I would add a 25 mm (1") bench chisel to the list, otherwise I agree with you completely.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin