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My V-3000 just arrived and I am trying to figure out the plan for positioning and ducting. I also have a couple other questions for any Oneida owners.

To start off, heres the rough layout of my shop:


The positioning of the tools is the best it can be given the size and shape of the room, although it may not look that good in the picture.

1. Cyclone w/wall mounting bracket
2. 16" Bandsaw
3. Rigid sander on table
4. LV router table
8. 17" Drill Press w/ a lot of Wagner planer use (on wheels to pull out)
9. Wood storage under stair build out
10. Wall bench w/gobar deck
11. Garage door

Coming this summer:
5. Jointer
6. Table saw
7. Island bench

I am thinking of running the ducting something like this:


I am unsure how to make the connection from the cyclone to 8 and 10, do I go up and over it or around?

Also, the ducting has to run just under the ceiling with some sort of hangers, it cannot go directly onto the ceiling as there is a large beam built out and tracks for the large garage door. This brings me to thinking I could fasten the cyclone on its hanger higher up so there is not a large step down at the connection, which would also allow some space for storage underneath with a shelving unit that the 35 gal bin could sit on, which would also make it easier to pick up and dump.

What is the best way to make the run from the central ducting to each machine? Should it be just a T-fitting and flex hose from there to the machine, or run a piece of actual ducting down as close as it can get and then flex hose from there? Although that would not allow me much mobility with things on wheels like the bandsaw and drill press.


Finally.... the Oneida manual shows a "Clip" that goes between the motor plate and the fan housing. What is this? I cannot find anything in the boxes that looks remotely close to this clip, but the diagram itself is kind of inaccurate to what things really look like so I could just be missing something. Also is it okay to position the outlet on the same side as the filter is coming out? I would call the company but they are closed on the weekends.

Sorry about all the questions, I have no experience with this.

Thanks,
Ed


PS. Steve, thats quite the rig you used to lift yours up! Luckily I will have an extra pair of hands to help out.

Ed,

Here's some of my thoughts and I'm sure you'll get plenty more. When you lay out your ducting be sure to allow adequate room for the 'Y's and elbows. Also, if you hang ductwork from the wall and ceiling it will be quieter if you use some kind of rubber bushing or something between the ductwork and house structure.

I am unsure how to make the connection from the cyclone to 8 and 10, do I go up and over it or around? I've got plans to run some of mine up on the ceiling for the bandsaw and drill press but haven't done it yet. Depending on what you want the drop for on the bench, you might be able to share the drop with the drill press

Also, the ducting has to run just under the ceiling with some sort of hangers, it cannot go directly onto the ceiling as there is a large beam built out and tracks for the large garage door. This brings me to thinking I could fasten the cyclone on its hanger higher up so there is not a large step down at the connection, which would also allow some space for storage underneath with a shelving unit that the 35 gal bin could sit on, which would also make it easier to pick up and dump. I suspect you must have a high ceiling so that might be an option. The 35 Gal can is not too hard to move. However, if you have a standard 8' ceiling, the unit is just over 87" high and allowing 3" above the motor for cooling air would only leave you 6" for shelving.

What is the best way to make the run from the central ducting to each machine? Should it be just a T-fitting and flex hose from there to the machine, or run a piece of actual ducting down as close as it can get and then flex hose from there? Although that would not allow me much mobility with things on wheels like the bandsaw and drill press. I've had good luck using flexible ducting but you'll want to minimize the runs and you'll also want to use 'Y' fitting instead of a 'T'. Real sharp 90 degree turns like those in a 'T'are to be avoided in the ducting. These guys have some good info on designing a system http://www.airhand.com/designing.aspx also google for Bill Pentz for more good info. You've bought a really nice machine but you'll find that getting the ductwork installed is also a challenge.


.... the Oneida manual shows a "Clip" that goes between the motor plate and the fan housing. What is this? The clip is a U-shaped piece that has been squashed flat. One side of the U will have a hole in it and the other side will have a threaded piece (nut) attached. These are used for the bolts to attach the motor plate to the fan housing. Since the threaded part is inside the housing the clip allows you to install the bolt without a wrench on the nut and also prevents the nut from falling into the impeller if it comes loose. From the manual it looks like there are probably about 8 of them and I'd guess they are about 1" x 1" x 1/2" overall or so.


PS. Steve, thats quite the rig you used to lift yours up! Luckily I will have an extra pair of hands to help out. necessity is the mother of invention.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Hi Ed,

Sorry I don't have time for the long answer. One thing they recommended was that you will have better efficiency if you start with a piece of straight pipe off the cyclone before any other fittings go on. I think it was 4 or 5 feet. Of course that's not always possible. I'm not sure if mine has the clip you talk about. I'll try to have a look and see if mine has something similar. You probably know this, but try to use as few 90's as possible.

Good Luck,
Danny

Thanks for the replies guys.

Steve- the ceiling is pretty high, 12 feet I think. I really ment "Y" not "T" for the junctions, and think I will just use a long piece of flex hose for the mobile machines and standard for the stationary ones. As for the "Clip" I had a bit of a moment and realized what it was, the diagram just seemed confusing, I thought it was something large.

Danny- I am thinking I can get it into the corner more and position the outlet so it is parallel with that first long run along the back wall.

I think you need to rethink the whole shop layout. For example, what is the table saw doing facing a wall with just a couple of feet in front of it? Stand with your back to the garage door as you face the table saw, so you can open the door and get room for ripping a long board or sheet. I don't get a sense of how the work flows in this shop.

Re ducting: You have a bunch of right angles. Avoid right angles if at all possible, they are a last resort. Even long radius 90's should be avoided if you can use 45's instead. I'd suggest a main going diagonally across the room with 45's coming off it; then long radius 90º dropping to the machines. Try to think 45º connections instead of all those 90's. Don't think of it as a street map.

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Yo,Howard

me thought like that then reallized that the wall you refer to is a broken line in the drawing and more than likely represents the invisible non existent wall between the shop and the other side of a double garage.

Well thats my take.


blessings

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

First, minimize the number of turns. Every direction change costs you
in flow efficiency. If using standard HVAC pipe from a home improvement
store, I use two adjustable ells to make a 90 degree turn, so that
I get a much larger radius- that helps efficiency also- or you can order large
radius ells from Oneida or one of the other dust collector vendors. I personally
use quick attach adapters on each tool, and just drop one flex line down for
a group of tools. You have three groups, which would work well with three
drops. I used 6" metal pipe, then stepped down to 4" flex as I exited the
Y or Ell. Point the transition pieces so they drop off the bottom of the line
each place you do a drop. (don't exit the pipe horizontally and then make a
90 degree turn to get the flex dropping vertically). Seal the joints with aluminum
backed HVAC tape, not duct tape. Here's the way I'd lay out your shop, with
4 drops at the blue arrows. The other option is to go as Howard suggests, and
run the main line diagonally across the shop, with short runs out to each group
of tools.

_________________
Gene

Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason- Mark Twain

Maybe so. But there are other things, e.g., the bandsaw has no need to be out in the middle of the floor. Rotate it 90º and put its frame against that dashed line; you'd free up a bunch of floor space and put it into what is now dead space. Another thing: it is really helpful to have 3 sided access to the go bar deck. The drill press is going to be cramped by the stair/wood storage--it needs some space on both sides (and it's not the best machine to put wheels on and keep pulling in and out). You need more access to a belt/disc sander, if that's what the Rigid sander is. Pull it away from the wall after moving the bandsaw. I'd suggest rethinking this layout. And see if you can put the cyclone outside the room.

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Howard- Padma is right about it not really being a wall that the tablesaw is up near, its just the border of my side of the garage. The island bench will be the same height as the saw and act as an out feed table, and also be on wheels so I can pull it away if need be. I will try to minimize the corners on the ducting.

Gene- Thanks for the suggestions and drawing. I have already rethought it, and my new plan was identical to the one you drew up. For the runs that drop down to multiple machines, can you have one line going down then a Y splitter at the bottom with blast gates, and if the machine has two ports another Y after that and flex hose to the machine?

If you saw the room you would realize the bandsaw is where it has to be, there really is no other good spot except for up against that back wall, but I would rather have the other two machines back there. I may try and find a better spot for the drill press, but it is just an awkward space in general for tools. I only have two useable walls, and one is faced with a 12 foot workbench already.

I gave it some more thought and gave up the idea of having the sander and router along the back, realize its a lot better spot for the bandsaw and drill press. Does this look okay? Also less runs now.

That looks much better to me Ed. Have you been to Bill Pentz's site. http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
He's pretty well the last word in dust collection. BTW I'm pretty sure you're going to be really happy with your choice of brands.

Happy Ducting,
Danny

Yeah, I agree that the layout looks much better and the ducting should be less expensive to install. Also, you might consider putting the go-bar deck on a lazy-susan so you can get to all sides. I think Hesh has one with a base mounted on drawer slides so he can pull it out and also spin it around. I've got mine mounted on a cart with casters so I can park it when I don't need to use it.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

That looks much better. When you put in the ducting, you make relocating the machines a lot harder, so it's well worth the time to do your best with the layout.

That being said, there is no perfect shop layout. It has to end somewhere. Enjoy the new space!

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Thanks gentlemen. I am really excited to be getting this system all up and running, and feel I finally have a solid plan. Today we got the wall bracket lagged on 2x4 spacers (the studs were not in a good location) and the cyclone body and fan housing all setup and bolted on. The motor still needs to go on because we did not have two good step ladders to take it up (the bin will be 30 inches off the ground, so its high) and the filter needs to go on still. I am hoping to buy ducting this week and have it up and running for next weekend to give it a whirl.

Appreciate all the help,
Ed