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I just read the "Should I do the finish myself or outsource It." thread. My question is what would be wrong with burnishing on Bees wax as a natural finish? If there is a draw back that I can think of IMHO, it might muddy the sound. Would it sound good or have a dreadful repercussion?

Joe

i dunno about beeswax, but i've used harder wax(downhill ski wax/paraffin) on fingerboards and other projects and i love it. if you leave your guitar in a car on a sunny day with the windows closed, or close to a fireplace, then your finish is gonna melt and seep into the wood though. not that you should do those things anyway....i might be inclined to think that as an acoustic guitar body gradually drank up wax, then it might have a dampening effect, tone wise
but, i am no expert....!!!

A friend of mine tried that on a Tele kit he bought from Sam Ash or someplace years back. Didn't feel that good, didn't hold up very well, prevented any other finish from being applied over it when he decided to try a proper finish. As a side note, I really didn't like the way it looked either. Too dull, and never looked completely finished over the ash body.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Try Tru-oil instead.

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

Thank you gentlemen, Nyzzap, as my rule of thumb never leave a guitar where you would not leave your 2 yo. child unattended. I was thinking possible tone issue. Mr. Howard I never even thought about a diminished refinish affect. Mr. Sollod, is True-oil like Tongue or Linseed oil?

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Joe

My wife asks me "How many Guitars do you need?"
I reply "When I die count them; thats how many I needed".

+ 1 on the Tru-oil

Its Gun Stock finishing oil . Take your time , Apply thin , lotsa coats , lotsa coats . Let set for a month .

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

WudWerkr: On this "tru-oil" Are we talking < 20 coats? Does it dry to a hard finish or mainly a moisture barrier?

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Joe

My wife asks me "How many Guitars do you need?"
I reply "When I die count them; thats how many I needed".

20 or more coats and yes it dries hard and can be polished out . It does take alot of time to cure , its also easy to repair " from what ive read " there are several threads on here u can do research on. I aplied mine with a cotton rag .

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

Tru-oil is a mixture of polymerized linseed oil and some other natural oils. I was told by a gunsmith that it was tung (note spelling), danish, and double-boiled linseed oil, but I can't find anything on birchwoodcasey.com to confirm or disprove that.

Technically, you don't have to apply 20+ coats. You can stop whenever you like, but it will probably be 5-6 coats at least.

I have used a cotton rag, like Jim, and I have also taken to wiping on thicker coats with just nitrile gloves. It builds faster, but it takes more care to make it even. I haven't found it to take that long to cure, just a couple of days. Of course, nothing I have finished in Tru-oil ever gets heavy use until several days after that, so maybe it does benefit from the extra time.

It is not as durable as a lacquer, and I understand from several sources on the mandolincafe.com that TO is displaced by sweat. Something to think about.

My gears started turning and I went hunting. I hope this isn't improper etiquette; importing from another blog. (if so let me know and it won’t happen again. ) They are talking about Tru-Oil as a gunstock finish.
I found this discussion on 24HourCampfire.com
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... e_True_Oil

gnoahhh

Pure tung oil (NOT tung oil "finish") mixed with a high solids spar varnish, cut with mineral spirits. Ratios are roughly equal- I used to carefully measure, now I just eyeball it (detecting no difference in effect). Components are a bit pricey but like everything else you get what you pay for, and it goes along way.

With any home brew, mix only what you need for that project. Tiny amounts. If it thickens up on you the molecules have cross-linked and effectiveness is greatly reduced. (Any chemists out there feel free to correct me. Could also be polymerization? Dunno, just that personal experience taught me a lesson in that regard.) I do save the thickened stuff and use it for finishing some wooden projects for the labs in the college I work for. I wouldn't rely on it for use on a gunstock that will see real-world usage out in the weather. Hell, I don't like an oil finish for that application anyway! But that has already been discussed, and I'm sure will be again!

Sitka deer

gnoahhh is exactly right, though I tend to use quite a bit less solvent. Cross-linking and polymerization are actually the same thing; Monomers become polymers by cross-linking.

All oil "finishes" are a combination of oils, resins, waxes and solvents. The idea in almost all home-user products is to make them easy to apply, not better finish.

There is no difference between tung oil and linseed and they are interchanged without concern in commercial finishes, including finishes specified as "Tung Oil Finish". Marketing is the only reason we know the difference between them... or rather that tung oil exists. It tends to be treated better during manufacturing and because it is easier to keep "clean" it is more often a better product. Which is why it often costs more when pure and fresh.

Are they speaking of the same "tru-oil"?

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Joe

My wife asks me "How many Guitars do you need?"
I reply "When I die count them; thats how many I needed".

I cannot answer that question , you can buy 8 oz bottle of true oil on amazon . com for under $12.00 . I would do that and the compare .

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

I use two coats of Danish oil (like it says on the can) and several (four or five) coats of Wipe-on Poly (satin).
The Danish oil brings out the grain and seals the wood. It dries overnight.
The Wipe-on Poly gives two coats a day for a finishing time of three days total.

Bob

They aren't talking about the same thing although the outcome of Tru-Oil and their home brew mix will be similar. They are cutting a Spar varnish 50/50 with pure tung oil, which will dilute the resin (the hard stuff) content. Effectively they are turning it into a thin wiping varnish with a relatively low solid (resin) content.

How much area does that 8 oz. cover, is it enought for 1 guitar? Do you prep with a fill like Unkabob befor starting with the True-Oil?

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Joe

My wife asks me "How many Guitars do you need?"
I reply "When I die count them; thats how many I needed".

8 oz will go along way , depending on coats , I used it on a Mandola , did approx 12-15 coats and used just over half or approx 4 oz . It WILL NOT hide grain or pore fill . If you dont want pores, grain showing , pore fill first ! If you shop on amazon .com u can get a 16 oz bottle for a great price. Thats where ive been getting mine , much better deal .

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

I recently used Tru-Oil to (re)finish an all mahogany Uke. It was my first experience with it.

I used the sandpaper w/Tru-Oil wet sanding Pore Fill trick, and I have to say that it came our pretty nice.

The trick to success it to be patient with it and use very very thin coats.

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Jim Hansen

Ohhh I gotta try that ! Thanks I had not thought of that idea .

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

It's messy... don't say I didn't warn ya :p

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Jim Hansen

You used the True-Oil instead of water on your wet sanding paper?

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Joe

My wife asks me "How many Guitars do you need?"
I reply "When I die count them; thats how many I needed".

I hate to try to describe the process, because I just did it on a whim without a lot of forethought or planning. I just kinda jumped in and went for it, but yes, basically, I just dripped a bit of oil on the surface and proceeded to sand it in small circles with 300 wet or dry. It doesn't take much sanding to make a nice slurry, but it does take a little practice to get good ay working the slurry into the pores (as opposed to pulling it out).

The stuff starts to thicken up pretty fast, so be prepared for it turning into a sticky mess not long after you start.

I did this on a ukulele, so it wasn't a big deal. Guitars will be more challenging.

Hopefully someone who actually uses this technique regularly can give some tips that are actually helpful. =) If not, I think I stumbled on the article via google somewhere. You might try a search for tru-oil pore fill and see what you find (lots of gun stock refinishing sites out there). Also, youtube is a great site for finding info too.

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Jim Hansen

Youtube is where I learned and became interested in guitar building and repair. I wanted to do something different than furniture and cabinets. I have built my first guitar and the finish is the big obstacle now. Through here and several other sites I am gleaning all the knowledge possible from people in the know. People kind enough to share their knowledge. The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.

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Joe

My wife asks me "How many Guitars do you need?"
I reply "When I die count them; thats how many I needed".

finish is a challenge. There are many paths to try. Hand applied finishes like tru oil, etc is one way. You can get yourself set up to spray. You can outsource (I outsourced the finish on my first two).

Most recently I've taught myself french polish.

I highly recommend giving this a try. It's inexpensive compared to most other options. Once you learn the technique, it goes pretty fast, and it dries instantly. I used a re-top project as a good reason to give it a try, and I really enjoyed the experience once I got set up and figured out the basics. It's been over a month now and I'm really happy with the look of the guitar, and it seems durable enough for me (I'm pretty careful). The nice thing is, if I decide to send it off for a poly or nitro spray, it won't take a lot of sanding to prep it, and repairs and touchups are pretty much a breeze.

There are quite a few tutorials out there. Give it a try.

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Jim Hansen

This Nitro Lacquer has taken roots in Murphy’s law and every single corollary. My little grand daughter likes to watch and help in the shop. I was shooting coat 8 of Nitro Lacquer (she has her own steamer punk goggles and mask). I over shot and got a run, I turned to set the can down muttering some mild expletives when I hear her say "I got it gramps" as I look up she is wiping the run off with a rough cloth shop rag. I Calmly suggested she go to the stable and help grandma with the horses <nicely>. I posted this late on "Dufus Award". Hence I was looking for the alternative ways to bring out a nice finished instrument. The next one is not going to be Nitrocellulose I will try the True-Oil or the French polish. I will have to polish up on the techniques with some scrap wood, and see what works best for me.. Thank all of you men and/or women for the great advise.

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Joe

My wife asks me "How many Guitars do you need?"
I reply "When I die count them; thats how many I needed".

Ya gotta love grandkids huh ! Alls you can do is smile , hugg em and say thank you for helping .

My dad rebuilt transmissions , my son at 3 wanted to help . After about 45 min he was missing , dad went into house and he was playing with his toy cars and there were lil hand prints in transmission fluid aaaaaaaalllllllll over the place .

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

I had a 32" Palmer come in <broken head>, the guy told me to keep it. I directed while she (grand kid) fixed it; she thought it was the coolest thing and even cooler when I told her she was the new owner.

Now to teach her don't touch the finish. I know she will still love me when she turns 13 and thinks her parents are stupid idiots.
BTW...when my kids turned 13 I understood why gerbils eat their young.

But we digress, I have decided on True oil as my next project finish [Gun shop down the st.]. I took the stock from one of my rifles sanded it and I think I can manage it. It is labor intensive (only did 2 coats) I can see where it is going, I think I will like the end product.

Thanks for starting the Idea sdsollod, unkabob and WudWerkr. All of you have been very helpful.

Joe Hill