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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:44 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Is there any instruction on how to do this?

Or how does anyone receive training and certification/authorization to do Buzz Feiten to a customer's guitar?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:55 pm 
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Todd Stock wrote:


Nice, I that site, right up there with www.cantyoudoanythingforyourself.org

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:08 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Stephen Delft
Doolin's article
Set It Up Better

If you're interested in nut compensation these are about the best articles I've found. They give good examples of what's involved and pix showing the shortcomings of Buzz's system. I don't know a lot about what Buzz Feiten system involves exactly but as I understand, it's expensive. When you know what you're doing it's really quite easy.

Nut compensation for many who don't really know how to play probably won't notice much, other than making the guitar easier to tune. If you play a lot from the 5th to the 10th fret you'll notice a big difference in tone. Heavy, hard playing chording in that area really shines, not so much bar chords but when a combination of open to fretted strings are used. Light fingerpicking or arpeggiated phrases not as much.

Most of these articles involve the nut, after being placed about .060 (1.5 mm) closer to the first fret(shortening the fretboard, or a shelf nut) is isolated by using a capo at the second fret and intonating the saddle to the 14th harmonic, or the saddle is set balancing the fifth and the 17th fretted notes until exactly the same note setting the saddle break point.

Once the saddle is then set to the - fretboard - without nut involvement, then the nut open note for each individual string is cut back until the note is true.

Delft uses .007(0.2 mm) bone shims to build out towards the first fret until the open note is true.....a somewhat less than elegant appearing method but I'm sure it works.

Mark Swanson who used to use nut compensation just cut back the nut using a dremel. Even though, at last speaking, he has gone to using a zero fret method instead.

I've personally calipered some Taylor guitars which use a compromise nut position in which they just shorten the nut to first fret distance by about .025(0.6mm). Taylor does use this method. I heard the distance was about .040(1 mm) but that's not what I've found. I've also heard Larivee, Tak, and other higher end guitars use this too.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:31 am 
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Koa
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Todd Stock wrote:



Except you did it wrong..

Here, let me help

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=buzz+feiten+tuning+system

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:44 am 
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Koa
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What you need to ask yourself is "What do I want to be in tune to?"

These days, probably the most sensible answer is equal temperament (and no, I don't want to get into a discussion about the pro's and con's of other temperaments - if you like them, go for them!). The BF system tunes you into another temperament, not equal, not just, but the BF "private" temperament that happens to make some guitar friendly keys sound a little better (maybe......basically, the keys with sharps in the signature). Problem is, you're not playing in the same temperament as anyone else who hasn't tuned to the BF temperament.

A more reasonable solution is to make your guitar play the equal temperament more accurately. Many aren't very accurate at all. The easiest way to do that is to use a nut compensation system as well as a saddle compensation system. However, the problem with that is that there isn't a "standard" solution. The nut and saddle compensation vary with neck relief, string action, string gauge, etc. etc. There is a way of working it all out, but I'm not going to tell you it's easy. However, once you've heard a guitar that plays really well in tune, there is no going back.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:18 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Trevor Gore wrote:
However, the problem with that is that there isn't a "standard" solution. The nut and saddle compensation vary with neck relief, string action, string gauge, etc. etc. There is a way of working it all out, but I'm not going to tell you it's easy. However, once you've heard a guitar that plays really well in tune, there is no going back.


Bingo!

Like I said I don't know exactly what Buzz teaches but it's likely the self same way of approaching nut and saddle comp.

Tom, down at the Fret House, whose been setting guitars up for 50 years looks kind of askance when the subject of nut compensation comes up but like Trevor said once you've heard a guitar set up right...you're there!

Another thing, there's a whole difference in the way individual people hear. I know for a fact, and if you talk to a Doctor you will find this to be true. There is a very big difference in physiology between people.

In cooking I watch a Dr. explain a big difference in senses. In measuring taste ability the Dr pointed out that the host of the show had about 30 papillae(taste buds)/cm. Most people only had 15. While some people only have 8. The host was what the Dr called a "super taster". The host could sense things many others couldn't. At the same time if the host was to pick up a spicy pepper it could "blow his head off" while the 8 papillae would only sense a slight buzz. It's not that 8 papillae is more "manly" it's just his tastes are dull.

Ace fighter pilot's in WWII were almost all above average in eye sight 20/10 or above...first to see, first to kill. Some peoples sense of smell is much more pronounced than other and are payed a lot of money in the perfume business.

We know that human hearing is not linear on top of that. People are generally more sensitive to higher pitched tones. The human ear is is much more sensitive to a sharp condition than to a flat. The problem with the guitar is everything is set up to make the guitar sharp. The tuning keys allow adjustment so it's "dealable"! On a piano, that would never be tolerated!

On a guitar the strings are pulled to the fret... they sharpen. The higher on the neck string to fret pull... they sharpen even more. The strings wear...they sharpen. The frets wear..they sharpen. Saddle wear..sharpen. Neck needs a reset.. it sharpens the scale length!

Nut compensation is a compromised attempt to bring that back into balance. The problem with the Buzz system, as I know it, is it involves a standard set for all guitars. Compensate a guitar and there's generally a pattern but they are not all the same. The Buzz system kind of gets you there...kind of doesn't.

Like the Chevy Nova's name in Mexico had to be changed, "No Va" means "No Go". I just don't like the sound of "Buzz" anywhere around my guitar! laughing6-hehe

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:52 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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The Buzz Feiten system tries to "borrow" from the thirds and fifths in order to "sweeten" the sevenths, ninths, and sixths, by manipulating the saddle intonation. For instance, the open note on on string may be dead on, but the intonation at the 12th fret may be a cent or two sharp or flat. The next string may be a few cents sharp or flat open, but dead-on at the twelth fret, some strings are sharp or flat in both positions by differing degrees. The system works "best" with the neck as straight as it will go, so your guitar must be set to shred whether you like it or not.
I find that two-string chords on adjacent strings can be off, especially if trying to use unison notes, which are NEVER the same on adjacent strings due to the compensation pattern, especially the higher up the fretboard you go.
The nut is compensated by a nominal amount, usually in the thousandths of an inch range for the purposes of reducing end tension at the nut. I find that if I simply press lightly on the string where it breaks over the nut and slot it correctly, the notes on the first few frets intonate correctly with no modification.
I typically have no problem getting all the notes on the fretboard to go green on my tuner simply by setting the intonation at the saddles.

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Last edited by theguitarwhisperer on Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:30 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Rod True wrote:
Todd Stock wrote:


Nice, I that site, right up there with http://www.cantyoudoanythingforyourself.org
Rod True wrote:
Todd Stock wrote:


Nice, I that site, right up there with http://www.cantyoudoanythingforyourself.org



Man, these guys pull no punches, do they?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:26 pm 
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Jim_H wrote:
Todd Stock wrote:



Except you did it wrong..

Here, let me help

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=buzz+feiten+tuning+system


That was cool

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:07 am 
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Koa
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Mark Maquillan wrote:
Jim_H wrote:
Todd Stock wrote:



Except you did it wrong..

Here, let me help

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=buzz+feiten+tuning+system


That was cool


It does stunts too! :p

http://bit.ly/sYS0Jx

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