Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Mon Jul 28, 2025 11:53 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:33 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:25 pm
Posts: 27
First name: John
Last Name: Jager
State: Iowa
Zip/Postal Code: 52553
Country: usa
Focus: Build
What do you think is the thinnest that ebony bridge wings could be on a 00 that will be strung with lights? Thanks in advance.


Last edited by j42c7j on Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:15 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:15 pm
Posts: 655
Location: Columbus,Ohio
3/32"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:33 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:27 pm
Posts: 2109
Location: South Carolina
First name: John
Last Name: Cox
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
It depends on your bridge plate, top thickness/stiffness, the spread of your X-brace under the bridge, whether you have any gaps between the X and the bridge plate, and whether or not your finger braces are directly under the bridge on the outside of the X....

If you have a fairly flexible bridge plate, a wide X-spacing, and no finger braces under the bridge - then it will need to stay thicker.... if you have gaps between the bridge plate and the X- then those wings will need to stay thicker... If your top wood is super duper hard and kinda thick - then your bridge can be thinner.. Ect.

Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:02 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:25 pm
Posts: 27
First name: John
Last Name: Jager
State: Iowa
Zip/Postal Code: 52553
Country: usa
Focus: Build
truckjohn wrote:
It depends on your bridge plate, top thickness/stiffness, the spread of your X-brace under the bridge, whether you have any gaps between the X and the bridge plate, and whether or not your finger braces are directly under the bridge on the outside of the X....

If you have a fairly flexible bridge plate, a wide X-spacing, and no finger braces under the bridge - then it will need to stay thicker.... if you have gaps between the bridge plate and the X- then those wings will need to stay thicker... If your top wood is super duper hard and kinda thick - then your bridge can be thinner.. Ect.

Thanks


Is your response in reference to the effect on sound or structural failure or both? I'm aware that all of these things will possibly effect sound, and I suppose they all effect the structural integrity of the bridge wings to some extent. My concern was more for the bridge cracking. I guess I didn't think problems such as soundboard deformation would be caused by thin bridge wings necessarily Thanks for the info.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:22 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:17 am
Posts: 1292
First name: John
Last Name: Arnold
City: Newport
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37821
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Quote:
My concern was more for the bridge cracking.

I have never seen a bridge crack because the wings were too thin. The bridge is a brace, and its stiffness figures into the top's resistance to deform under string tension.
In my experience, forward-X braced guitars are more sensitive to top bellying if the bridge wings are too thin.
On forward-X guitars, I will make the bridge wings about 0.120". On rear-X guitars, I will go down to about 0.090".

_________________
John


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:58 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:51 am
Posts: 1310
Location: Michigan,U.S.A.
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I your concern is cracking, i would not worry about the wing thickness as much as the saddle depth or grain orientation.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:26 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:27 pm
Posts: 2109
Location: South Carolina
First name: John
Last Name: Cox
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
j42c7j wrote:
Is your response in reference to the effect on sound or structural failure or both? I'm aware that all of these things will possibly effect sound, and I suppose they all effect the structural integrity of the bridge wings to some extent. My concern was more for the bridge cracking. I guess I didn't think problems such as soundboard deformation would be caused by thin bridge wings necessarily Thanks for the info.


Why wouldn't the bridge and wings effect soundboard deformation? It's the stiffest and heaviest crossgrain brace in the lower bout, and it ties much of the lower bout bracing together... All the things I mentioned will effect how much the soundboard flexes....

I haven't seen bridge wings crack - but they do flex quite a bit... Take a look at your average guitar shop bridge - how it conforms to the dome of the top... but they are generally flat when glued on...

If you are worried about splitting the wings - then stay away from curly/burly wood....

Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:44 am 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:25 pm
Posts: 27
First name: John
Last Name: Jager
State: Iowa
Zip/Postal Code: 52553
Country: usa
Focus: Build
truckjohn wrote:
j42c7j wrote:
Is your response in reference to the effect on sound or structural failure or both? I'm aware that all of these things will possibly effect sound, and I suppose they all effect the structural integrity of the bridge wings to some extent. My concern was more for the bridge cracking. I guess I didn't think problems such as soundboard deformation would be caused by thin bridge wings necessarily Thanks for the info.


Why wouldn't the bridge and wings effect soundboard deformation? It's the stiffest and heaviest crossgrain brace in the lower bout, and it ties much of the lower bout bracing together... All the things I mentioned will effect how much the soundboard flexes....

I haven't seen bridge wings crack - but they do flex quite a bit... Take a look at your average guitar shop bridge - how it conforms to the dome of the top... but they are generally flat when glued on...

If you are worried about splitting the wings - then stay away from curly/burly wood....

Thanks


The bridge is .090 on the treble side and .070 on the bass side. I didn't think having the wings slightly thinner than what is generally the accepted standard would result in soundboard deformation unless you were teetering on the brink so to speak. My fault for not explaining better. I'm using symetrical bracing, so I have a horizontal tonebar about an inch below the bridgeplate. The BP is maple and about .095. The finger braces are coupled to the X, 2 on each side. The BP is coupled to the X, and the X isn't fully forward shifted, but slightly higher than most Martin 00's. The SB IS .095. I felt I was probably safe, but wanted to ask. The grain is a little off quarter on the bridge, so I am a little concerned about the grain lines too closely aligned with the pin holes, but decided it would probably be ok. The BP grain is diagonally opposite of the bridge pin holes so I'm good there.

Thanks everyone for your input, it's appriciated


Last edited by j42c7j on Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:11 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:47 pm
Posts: 1213
Location: Raleigh, NC
First name: Ringo
If everything is coupled together well, the X is tall enough, and the X crosses directly over both sides of the bridge you should be fine. I'd think in your case 1/16" would be pushing the limits so it's close on the bass side.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: meddlingfool and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com