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Hi all, it's been around a year I think since I finished my #2 guitar. I have put off starting a third because I... well, im dirt poor to be honest. Every time I get the itch to build and go price out a classical it always ends up being in the $350-$400 range for parts. This is the typical classical stuff, spruce top, Indian rosewood back and sides, mahogany neck etc..

I know a lot of you guys know tons about wood and have stockpiles available to you that if you wanted to do a really inexpensive build you know exactly where to go, but I have no wood and know nothing about it really. My first two were both kits.

My question is... what types of cheap wood could I buy that won't be too hard to work with, that I could use for soundboard, back and sides, and neck? I need to buy from a place like RC Tonewoods or LMI or somewhere that have sets already prepared, since I don't know enough to buy from a non-luthier source, I just need to know what some good woods are that will work well, look decent, and won't break my tiny bank account.

For euro spruce tops I'd recommend old world tonewood. His grade B and A tops ($7.50-$16) are really nice, especially for the money. His $49 euro maple back and side sets are also really nice. If you have a decent hardwood lumber place, you can pick up some 4/4 mahogany or spanish cedar for necks that won't break the bank too. For most other things, LMI is pretty reasonable.

wow that little for tops!!! This is why I posted here haha. thanks much! I don't know about any good wood place where I live, mostly its just big box stores for lumber, but ill look around.

Yo, Matt,
You don't say where you live, so it's a bit hard to advise without knowing your area. But I know you can often make a fine top from a somewhat downgraded top set. Tell the merchants you could settle for some discoloration, etc., but that you need a stiff top. Then settle for a second grade sort of thing. The good merchants won't let you down if you're honest with them. As for backs and sides, I have literally seen nice instruments made from locally-scrounged shipping palettes. If you're not too choosy about appearance, it's amazing what you can scrounge. My default hardwood for almost everything from coffee tables to classical backs is Missouri black walnut. It's extremely plentiful where I live, and can be scrounged from lots of sources--even old window sills, barn timbers, etc. etc. But I think similar local wood sources can be found in almost any area of the country. You've just got to get out and talk to house wreckers, tree fellers, firewood cutters, or local sawmills that might have their own downgraded woods that they'd let go for cheap dollars. In your situation, I wouldn't even be afraid of pin knots. In fact, my archtop has a rather spectacular pin knot on one side of its back, which I accept as a nice feature of the wood. The board from which I bookmatched that back, by the way, was given to me as a gift. Wood is all around most of us. You've just gotta look for it.
Patrick

I live in SE Idaho, seems like all we have here is sagebrush, pine, and cotton trees, heh. If I had the means of re-sawing I would try the scrounging route, as I have read many stories here and other places of great finds, but it does require a bit of knowledge and equipment, neither of which I have.

I just googled places in Idaho and this place in Boise (and somewhere else in idaho) seems to have 4/4 African mahogany.

http://intermountainwood.com/boise_stocklist.htm

good find, thank you! Here is their list of hardwood in my city.
http://www.intermountainwood.com/idahof ... allslumber

Looks like they have African mahogany there too. Is it pretty comparable to Honduran? Ill ask them about a price.

African and Honduran are very similar. You can get a nice set of African off of ebay for about $30. I can hook you up with a set of African and an A grade Red Spruce top for $100. Your best bet would be to find a local luthier or furniture maker, and see what they have laying around for sale.

I'm pretty bad at being a cheapo- I have a sweet tooth for nice woods. But here are some thoughts.

Different vendors specialize in different areas, and have different prices for the same things. For example, Hibdon has the best neck woods I know of, and for the best prices too. But their back/side sets tend to be a little pricey (although very nice).
RC Tonewoods is more about fancy stuff, but good prices as far as fancy stuff goes. Especially when things are on sale.
High Mountain Tonewoods has some of the best tops and brace wood, and decent prices, but shipping from Canada is pricey.
LMI has some of the best selection of odds and ends, but their wood prices are too high, IMO. I still feed them lots of money though, for things I can't find all in one place anywhere else.
Deals can be had on ebay, but you have to now what to look for, and have a good instinct. Still, there's some chance involved.

Shipping is expensive. If you can't find things local, then you'll fare much better if you order a few guitar's worth of wood at once. Not such a good thing if you have no money buffer to work with, but if you can sell any of the instruments then it will pay you back in the long run.

I've also gotten many good deals in the classifieds section of this forum. Maybe not worth the signup price if you don't have the cash to jump on the good deals when they come up though.

And finally... I've stockpiled more wood than I really need (particularly some sets I have multiples of that I may never use all of), so if you'd like, I could put together a bundle for you for probably $150. Although if you've only done kits so far, you may be needing some more tools too.

Well at the very least I now know of a few online places I was unaware of before. Maybe the best thing is to check them from time to time and buy special deals. I guess my main point of ignorance is that I have no idea what woods work for what parts, whats easy/hard to work with etc... I have only used the typical stuff I mentioned in the first post. I suppose to need to do some searching around the interwebs for more info on that stuff.

Dennis, the only tools I need at the moment are a few Japanese pull saws, as I did a bonehead and ruined two of them on a screw hidden in a piece of oak I was messing around with before I realized what I was doing heh. The only procedure I have not yet done on my own is side bending, and I made myself a nice little hot pipe bender last year after I had completed #2. Haven't had any wood to practice with it yet though! Anyway, thanks for the offer on the wood, but I think ill just keep an eye out for special deals on these various websites, that might be the best way to get stuff really cheap. I dislike being so cheapskate, but don't have much of a choice at this time.

Anyone hiring a beginning microbiologist?

I have had good luck talking directly with small and mid-size dealers and explaining what I need. I am guessing you don't have a bandsaw or thickness sander, so need wood more or less ready to build with? RC Tonewoods, an OLF sponsor, offers free sanding with any of their ebay back and sides; don't know about the wood directly from their site, but you could ask. Bob is a friendly and helpful guy. He may also have less perfect but useable EIR in classic size for cheap--wouldn't hurt to ask.

Walnut makes a really nice neck and looks similar to mahogany. If you are willing to "fold" a flat-sawn piece (cut in the middle, join pieces so grain is vertical) you don't need a big expensive quarter-sawn piece.

I also have bought from Old World Tonewoods. The 2 less expensive tops had the best tap tone. I don't see inexpensive maple on his site, but I spoke to John Preston when I bought the tops and he was very friendly and accommodating. Why not send him an e-mail if you're interested?

Finally, you could spend a few bucks and access the OLF classified section, and ask people if they have any wood they'd sell inexpensively. You've already gotten a couple of offers--you could get more, and perhaps more detailed offers (I'd hold out for a picture before I sent money).

_________________
Tim Allen
"Never hurry, never rest."

Hi Matt - Allied Lutherie, one of the OLF sponsors has some lower grade Indian rosewood at a good price.http://www.alliedlutherie.com/makeover.htm

Alex

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You are in good company with your penchant for cheapness....

For backs and sides... Contact the aforementioned tonewood suppliers that actually handle Importing themselves... They frequently end up with quite a bit of stuff from the mills overseas that doesn't quite meet up with the criteria for the higher grades they normally list... but you can buy it cheap if you so desire.... Ask for "Student" grade....

Same for Tops... Anyone who resaws from billets will frequently end up with plenty of stuff that is streaky or uneven grain - but it's otherwise great top wood.... Perhaps it has a sap pocket or a knot somewhere that you could either work around - or cut out and joint it up as a 4-pc top instead... Especially so with top wood imported from Europe... as they typically end up with a mix of stuff coming in.. They gotta buy the whole lot to get the good stuff... This low grade wood is typically Cheap stuff...

Next thing.... If there is a local woodworking club that has a club shop - you can usually use their big bandsaw to resaw your own sets... Once you do this - then you can go real cheap... You can buy dimensional lumber or even scavenge old furniture off the curb and resaw it into sets...

You could even buy a nice looking Cedar 4x4 post or 2x6 and resaw it out for tops... You can probably resaw a 4x4 for a 4-pc top with a well set hand saw.... Just gotta have some patience and not worry about cutting it a bit extra thick to allow for the saw....

Other places you can cheap out are necks, bracewood and lining... Make necks out of dimensional lumber. Bracewood out of split 2x4's, and linings out of thin wood scraps... Etc.

Thanks

While you are saving up for/scrounging up woods for the next build, spend your free time reading and asking about woods. Learn as much as you can about evaluating wood. That way you will be able to recognize the diamonds in the rough. Usable tonewoods are all around if you know what to look for when you stumble across them for cheap/free (if you make a friend with the means to resaw it). Tops are a little trickier to come by (at least where I live), though about 6 months ago, I stumbled on some candidates. I was at a hardware store and noticed they had an off-cut lumber bin. There were a bunch of 3 foot long 2x8 for $2 each. Two of them happened to be quartered WRC with straight grain (much nicer than the cedar you typically see in lumber these days). For $4, I should be able to get at least 4 top sets for small bodied guitars or larger if I do lower bout wings (probably more but you never know until you open it up) or several Ukes/flattop mandos. . .

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Bryan is correct .I/ve found cedar an spruce bracewood in the freebie trash can at homeless depot.Frequently motorcycle shops have crates from asian suppliers that use luan , meranti and other mahogany looking tropical woods.Pallet wood can also be recycled.I.m sure there are arborists in your city that could give you trees that they recycle.If you tell them what your after, species of wood , they can help, its a win win, they save a trip to the dump an you get free luthier wood or firewood

If you're the mad scientist type and can figure out how to get the wood thinned down, you can get good tone wood for about free.
Thinning wood can be done many ways without a bandsaw: Splitting, hacking with a long blade in a sawzall, using an auto body rotary sander. All of these would be followed by smoothing with a very sharp plane. You might need to make friend's with a fine cabinetmaker. Find out if he'll saw wood in return for whatever grunt work needs doing at the shop.
Any time you come across any wood, tap it hard with your fingernails and knuckles. If it has a lively, crisp, bell-like tone, put it in your luthier's pile. A good tapping "wrong" species of wood will make a better guitar than a dull sounding piece of famous type wood.
I made ferociously fine toned electric bass out of the following wood: Super dense Cedar from a fallen down shed, Heavy pine from a bonfire pile, Nice maple from a Model A Ford body mount and birds eye maple from a 1940 school chair.

If you're the mad scientist type and can figure out how to get the wood thinned down, you can get good tone wood for about free.
Thinning wood can be done many ways without a bandsaw: Splitting, hacking with a long blade in a sawzall, using an auto body rotary sander. All of these would be followed by smoothing with a very sharp plane. You might need to make friend's with a fine cabinetmaker. Find out if he'll saw wood in return for whatever grunt work needs doing at the shop.
Any time you come across any wood, tap it hard with your fingernails and knuckles. If it has a lively, crisp, bell-like tone, put it in your luthier's pile. A good tapping "wrong" species of wood will make a better guitar than a dull sounding piece of famous type wood.
I made ferociously fine toned electric bass out of the following wood: Super dense Cedar from a fallen down shed, Heavy pine from a bonfire pile, Nice maple from a Model A Ford body mount and birds eye maple from a 1940 school chair.

Pacific Coast is a sponsor in Oregon, that is at least a neighboring state. I have never been afflicted by WAS, TAS is my weekness. Vince supplied me with some great Port Orford at great prices. He said at the time that he could put together a student kit for about $100, worth checking in with, he has Myrtle and some other varieties. I have only build 2 as well, both with less then 50 in wood.
Rob

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double post

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Hi Matt,

I have a light birdseye maple set that I would be happy to give you for free.

Back when I was selling tonewood I cut a lot of birdseye maple and still have many sets left over I am never going to use.

If you want it PM me your address and I will send it to you.

Regards,
Brad

Hey Matt...I have some Engelmann and WRC sets that I would be willing to send you if you paid the shipping. PM if you're interested. I know what it's like to be broke and building. I have plenty of wood but lack alot of the necessary jigs. I'm always willing to help out a builder in need.
Mitch

Also, here's a good place for Indian Rosewood 2nds at a good discount.
http://www.allenguitar.com/back.htm

Matt,
Great thread! I'm always surprised when I dig through the listings at our various sponsors' websites. You can often find good deals on seconds, orphaned pieces, etc., that will make perfectly good guitars. They just won't look exactly like most every other guitar in the world, which is not necessarily a bad thing, in my opinion.

A microbiologist... hmm. Have you considered looking for work in Seattle? The South Lake Union neighborhood is booming with life science and global health research.

It's nothing like Pocatello, but that's not all bad either. :-)

http://www.seattle.gov/economicDevelopment/industry_biotech.htm

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George :-)

Matt, I want to second the suggestion to look for a local woodworking club. You probably also have a vocational-technical school in your area that offers adult classes. That's where I got my first access to bigger tools and good instruction many years ago.

I also note that your local hardwood dealer sells walnut, cherry, and maple--any of which can be used for nice necks. You can buy 3/4" stock and shape it into necks in a couple of different ways. I found a nice 3/4" maple board at Menard's and sawed out three pieces which I stack-laminated into a banjo neck blank. This little picture will illustrate. The three flat pieces have been turned up on edge and glued together. In this case, I put veneer laminations in as well, but that's not necessary. The "wings" on the headstock area were also cut from the same flat board. My headstock pattern is laying on the ramp, obscuring the view of the laminations, but you'll get the idea. Take a look.

And, oh yes, the generosity of our forum members never ceases to amaze me. Good folks hanging out here!

Patrick