Official Luthiers Forum!

I say, "I just build guitars in my garage for fun." It's not all fun though. I do accept money for those guitars I built in my garage. What the heck am I?

You, sir, are a guitar maker. As am I.

Maybe you become a luthier when you don't need to ask silly questions on forum sites about how to repair this, or how to tackle that. Lol. But it really is an interesting question isn't it? I can do all sorts of plumbing work in my home but I don't consider myself a plumber. In the same vain, I can do all sorts of electrical work in my home, but I don't consider myself an electrician (I hate 3 way switches btw). Each of those fields requires schooling, apprentice work etc before you become their respective titles.

We're not the only ones to be muddying the waters either though. I've had the opportunity over that last number of years to visit the Martin factory. Each time I come away with a new jig here, a new technique there. But, in a factory employing somewhere around 600 employees, I'm going to suggest there are only a handful of luthiers in the place. Before my first visit to Martin, I envisioned a whole factory of luthiers working away at making great guitars. But what I discovered was that there are highly skilled inlay artists, set up people, binder-ers, lining appliers, carpenters, cnc operators, etc. but Martin apparently rarely cross trains people. Martin readily admitted the last time I was there that the are in the business of making guitars, not training 600 people to build an entire guitar. Makes good sense to me, otherwise there would be such a high turn over of employees, with employees striking out on their own to make their own guitars. By the definition, each employee would be a luthier, but I don't think I would call them luthiers - just very good at one particular aspect of building a guitar.

In some ways I think I like the fact that 'luthier' has some sort of perceived mysticism to it. Whereas every house needs plumbing and electricity, not every house needs a guitar (shame on those houses). So out of that, schooling and apprenticeships have evolved for plumbers et al. But not so for luthiery. Before the internet, it was almost like a closely guarded secret. Last time I said I plumbed in my toilet, I got a blank stare. Last time I said I've started building guitars, I got a starry eyed look of wonder and about a thousand questions to boot. I think they thought they were talking to Gandolph the Grey and not me, building guitars in my garage.

But call myself a luthier. Nope. Nada. Not yet. But I would call a bunch of you on here luthiers without missing a heartbeat.

And you Tony, we're all still trying to figure that out.....

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Rob Flindall
Flindall Guitars
http://www.flindallguitars.com
https://www.facebook.com/FlindallGuitars

That's an easy one. After you've passed the initiation and learned the secret handshake..... you're in!

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Jim Womack

"Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for. "
Will Rogers

I can only speak for the UK, but over here, in medical school, you either graduate or you don't. There is no ranking, no first, no last . I would be vastly surprised if it were any different in the US or in Canada.

In other disciplines of course, you can get awarded a 1st class Honours degree, or a 2nd Class Honours, and within these gradations you can be awarded a 1 or a 2.

But in Medicine ? no way ...

So I've really been thinking on the subject and I've got some ideas of when you are a luthier. To come up with an answer that suited me I had to ask about other trades, electrician, machinist, carpenter, etc. When is someone an electrician? Well they could go to a trade school and when they graduate are they an electrician? They have a paper that says so. I say not necessarily. You are an electrician when you are capable of performing electrical tasks on your own and have proficiency over basic tasks. School can teach you but until you have proven yourself you are not really an electrician. Same for guitars. You can go to school but that don't name you a luthier. You can apprentice, but you can't just decide when you are done apprenticing. Once your mentor has decided you possess the skills to work on your own and have proficiency at basic lutherie skills, then he will let you know that you are a luthier. You can learn in your own. But until you have these skills you aren't a luthier. So basically if a respectable luthier calls you a luthier, well you are one.

I had someone recently refer to me as a Master Luthier, to which I had to respond that I was nothing of the sort. I know enough to get by for some things, but there is far more to learn than I have already learned. I doubt that I will ever "master" the craft, but it is something we all strive toward.
Am I even a luthier really? I guess in the minimum sense as Mario has said.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

What Mario said.

I think it's time to post this again:
http://www.cumpiano.com/Home/Articles/A ... edagog.htm

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

Personally I don't care what any defines me as.

I do what I do, and what other people think concerns me very little. Who really cares if you are a "Luthier" or not. Will that change how good or poorly you can build? Will it change how much enjoyment you get from it? No? Then why bother.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

The day you realize that you are not getting rich or ever will but you continue anyway. Then you can officially be declared a luthier.

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Guitars, guitars and more guitars.

Like anything, you become a luthier when someone starts paying you for what you know not what you do. If you charge people your cost or give your instruments away you are a hobbyist, and there is nothing wrong with that. But there is also no risk involved. When you become confident enough for people to pay you for your service at profit then you become a professional. You are liable for the work you do. If you put your name on something there an understood contract that you stand behind that product for some amount of time, maybe forever.

For the most part, professionals like neurosurgeons, electricians, accountants, lawyers, cosmetologist etc. have boards they must pass to show that they can deliver the SAME standard of care or service to the public that would be equal to the guy next door. There are those who maybe more talented at what they do, and they are rewarded by busier practices or businesses and/or higher fees. Bottom line is you charge what you are worth. these situations don't really apply to this topic as there is no standard we base our industry on.

I guess what I am saying is that lutherie seems to be as much of an art as it is a craft. If you are confident enough to charge some one to paint a portrait of them then you are by definition portrait artist. Same with guitar building. Granted there are those who build way better guitars than other but none the less they are still luthiers. It's the free market that decides whether you get to continue to be a luthier or not.


R

I like Filippo's idea. From now on, if anyone calls me a luthier, I'm going to say, "Actually, I'm just an astronaut."

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George :-)

I'm an astronaut. I went to the Kennedy Space Center last year and have a t-shirt to prove it.

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Doug

Don't let fear or common sense stop you from trying to build something

I like the term "rocket surgeon"

R

"Brain Scientist" works for me.....

Hey, I was a Scientist, once! I made a whole bunch of signs for the bus the band I was with traveled in, and helped put them on. When we were done, we all agreed we were Sign-tists, so it was in the company of my peers, too! Bam!

They say the difference between a cabinet maker and and loofier is the number of clamps he has.

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.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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+1 And the punctuation is perfect.

I've been called the "L" word. That's not how I self-identify, but I don't take offense. I've been called worse. It's worth noting that "Luthiers" sometimes draw a line between themselves, and "repairmen". (I do more repair work than building.) Also: in the violin world, "Luthier" is sometimes a term of contempt="guitar-maker".

When asked, I say that I repair and build classical guitars.

Just wait until they start referring to you as a "real craftsman", or a "true artist".

That's when I kicked my toe in the dirt and uttered, "Shucks, folks - t'weren't nothin".

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

We can all call ourselves a 'luthier' as no one but a luthier would be having this conversation.

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Michael Lloyd

“I was born to ignorance, yes, and lesser poverties ...
I was born to privilege that I did not see ... I didn’t know it, but my way was paved” – John Gorka

As long as the cheque doesn't bounce, it doesn't matter what people call you.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

I feel funny , when people call me an artist, as frankly I feel like a space cadet for about 3 hours in the morning until I get the java , and gym workout through my system. I plan on retiring with a high quality japanese thin bladed paring chisel in my cold-blooded hand.

I only become a luthier once a month on the full moon. It's terrifying!

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

I'm guessing this would make Commander Chris Hadfield the supreme astronaut luthier of us all!?

All hail Commander Chris Hadfield!

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Rob Flindall
Flindall Guitars
http://www.flindallguitars.com
https://www.facebook.com/FlindallGuitars

I've been lurking here for a long time, but this post has pushed me to respond.

I don't think titles matter that much. I've been fixing guitars in my neck of the woods for the last twenty-some years, and have gotten a reputation for it -mostly good .
People bring broken guitars and I fix them. I also make guitars and mandolins (over a hundred by now).

Here's the interesting thing - I doubt that I've ever completed a perfect guitar. They are working instruments that look nice, play well and sound good. They look like they've been made by a human being. I don't really make trophy-guitars or eye-candy, which is why I hesitate participating in this forum. But I have had orders to build for the last 12 years. I charge a fair price, and I always tell my clients that they should buy their new instrument only if it meets their approval, no further obligation.
If I get a repair in that I don't know how to do, I just tell the client that I don't know how to do that repair. I think that in guitar making or repair, honesty is the only thing.

Call me a luthier, or craftsman, or artisan, or wood-butcher. It does not matter unless my ego has to have the title. Famous I am not, and I have a feeling that I might not pass the luthiers test. That's ok. I do think we all tend to be perfectionists, which makes it tempting have a set of universal standards that we must all live up to, and thus we know our standing in the pecking order. It's kinda the same way in the world of fine arts. My point is that maybe there is room for all of us in this wonderful craft. No need to be exclusive.

Please don't take my luthiers license away 'cause I've got a backlog right now

Still got a lot to learn, and thanks OLF for helping with the learning process, Jim