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So starting out I said I would buy me a bending iron. The cost of one I around 200€ +. I could save a few euros getting one from America too. I also, was looking into purchasing a side bender machine like the bluescreek version for future builds where I could replicate them over and over again from moulds.

First, I saw some irons all coming out of china for around 70-100$. My problem with that is, I do not have a clue on the manufacturer, or reputability of sellers except eBay. If I could get some feedback on that, I may buy the iron and then a machine later.

Second, if the Chinese option seems a little too iffy. Should I bite the bullet for a machine fox,lmi, or blue creek? They are expensive to buy outright and that is a gigantic investment for a beginner.

Third on a side note, I want to say thanks to the OLF members contributors and other amateur luthiers for all the help comments suggestions and advice that I have gotten free here. Please pardon my frequent threads if they are the "oh that question again???" I really try to research before I ask, and a lot of times I mainly ask the opinions about a topic rather than the sure fire way to do something.

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久保
美智え

Personally, I wouldn't spend extra money to buy a manufactured bending iron when they are so easy to make. A piece of exhaust pipe, an electric charcoal starter bent to fit up the pipe and a router speed control to control the temperature are all you need. My set up is just to hold the exhaust pipe in a vice which, in turn, is clamped to a work bench. I have a few different sized pieces of exhaust pipe which occasionally comes in handy but one size could do it all.

If you plan on building more than one or two guitars, you might as well bite the bullet and get or build a Fox style bender. However even if you do this, you'll still find a hot pipe useful.

Pat

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There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

I agree with Pat on this.

I use a fox style bender. I only bought a heating blanket and jack screw for the waist. I made all the wooden parts from scrap I had around. It was an easy and economical way to go.

After 15 years I scrapped the old bender and made a new on. This one was inspirited in part by the new LMI bender. I did buy a temperature controller and small waist blanket to add to this one. It has been a great machine and again not so much $$$$. I have made 3 forms to use with this one. I can make a new form for about $20

Also, one of these days I'm going to add a bending pipe to my tool collection. Not for side bending but to bend things like bindings and back plates or whatever.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

I broke down and bought a commercial bender (BluesCreek) but I don't buy the actual jigs. When I make a body mold for a new guitar I keep the pieces cut out of the inside and glue them together to make the bending jig.

I think my first 4 Guitars were made with nothing more than a pipe and a blow torch. Doesn't come much cheaper than that. After a bit of practice they all bent OK. Unless you know that you are in it for the long haul I'd stay away from expensive equipment. You can always buy that when you want to make more than a few guitars per year.
After my pipe I had an aluminium oval form cast and I put a heating element in it, salvaged from a infa red heat lamp. I'm still using it some 25 years on.

being a former tool/die/mold designer and toolmaker i have a totally snobbish attitude about luthier tools. i think we should make all what is practical to make. for example bending machines, molds, fixtures, templates, forms, shooting boards, jointing boards, etc.. all are easy to make and help the mind stretch out a bit and sharpen the skills and reduce this dependency on buying things that we can make ourselves.

i draw the line at making chisels, plane blades, router bits, drill bushings, etc... yeah, i can make them, but the cost of the material alone is often more then the price of a decent ready made tool not to mention the time it takes to duplicate what dedicated manufactures of such things can make easier and for far cheaper.

so, for the small shop builder doing small batch production, or the home based artisan, i say go for it, make a hot pipe or a bending machine -it's totally easy and worthwhile and will boost your confidence and enhance your control of your craft.

now, if you are a volume manufacturer who must see your shop as a profit center, then you're in another ball park entirely. you shouldn't make anything that isn't really necessary and that doesn't add to the value stream of your business.

Well said Arie.I also make my own bender jigs and etc. etc. I think it makes us better in tune with the whole process. Or maybe I`m just Cheap?

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

no, not cheap at all. in manufacturing engineering we call this "process ownership". kind of a spin off of the "employee empowerment" movement in the factories of the mid 80's. in progressive companies, employees were encouraged to think on their own, check their own work, form teams to solve problems, generate ideas, fix "stuff", etc.. and basically branch out, and build individual confidence, and become more valuable to the organization. it's a good thing.

I went with the cantilever waist caul design. Makes it easier to get the sides in and out. Had to reinforce the riser so it had no movement. Angle braces from home depot worked fine. I use a solid form with a ss slat installed on it.

The best things about the new bender is using a small waist blanket and a big one, as well as the temperature controller.

I use the LMI heat controller and I just heat the waist blanket alone (set at 305) and when the temp gets to about 250 I start to bend it. You don’t want to trust the temp alone, spray a little water on it and it should sizzle. By the time it is fully bent it has reached about 290-300. I turn the blanket off. And plug in the large blanket. I like to spray a little water on the waist area to cool it down before I start the big blanket.

Then just start the big blanket and when stream starts, (around 250) start the lower bout followed by the upper. I usually spray a little water on the already bent waist to keep it from scorching even though the waist blanket is off.

Mine bender looks like this.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

I'm going to toss this notion out here and I know I will stir the pot a bit when I do. Some will disagree with me and that's perfectly okay, because we all have our way of doing things. All that said, here is my opinion:

If you aim to set up a production shop and you are willing to store the bending forms AS WELL AS the construction molds, if you have room to store those bending forms and if you decide this is the way you prefer to work, then go for it.
Many do just that and the system works well for those folks.

As for me, I build for my own pleasure. I have never yet made two identical instruments, although I have used the same outside construction mold for two instruments with different features.

I think you should learn to bend free hand on a bending iron. It is not all that difficult to do. Believe me, if I can do it, you can, too. If you can learn to do that, you will only have to store your various construction molds and a single bending iron between instruments. You will not be encumbered with several bending machine forms in addition to your molds.

Now...if you really intend to build a dozen of this model and a dozen of that model and a couple dozen of some other model, then by all means build your own bending machine forms for each model you propose.

But you can do very well, indeed, with a bending iron and some patience and a little practice. You will have more room in your shop to store instrument woods, too.

That's just my take on things.

Patrick

A bending iron may be a little slower than a bending machine but it isn't that much slower, although much depends on your skill with the iron. The quickest that I've bent a side (one side, of a pair) was just over 5 minutes. Usually it takes me around 15 to 20 minutes, so near 40 minutes for a pair. I only bend one set at a time. I get bored quickly if I go into production mode. If I was bending 3 or 4 sets consecutively I guess that I could get that down to a lot less than 30 minutes for a set.

Make one. Or buy john hall's bending machine. It's that simple

I appreciate everyones input here. I have really been debating this. I may be more inclined to try and build one and save some money there. Reason being i do want to do the same model more than a few builds, i was not entirely sure i would be looking at benders at this point though. Comparing the prices is what made me think about it really. A bending iron here would cost around the equivalent of 310 US dollars. Still would need heat blankets and a controller for it, any of the european guys know where i can get this stuff instead of shipping it from america (without paying more than shipping it from america)? If i were in the states i probably would have just gotten one already. It makes a big difference living over here, many violin makers (who kind of laugh at you on the inside and tell you that you need to go to a luthier school and apprentice under someone for many years) but not so many guitar builders who are "friendly" in sharing info. I did find a few guys that would talk with me but they do electrics. I will start looking around for plans to get an idea and look over the costs for that. Just looking at them i am sure i can get the supplies i need at a hardware store here. The blankets, slats and controller for sure not. Again thanks to everyone for your input, it is good stuff.

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久保
美智え

There are a lot of industrial suppliers of heating blankets and controllers, I'm sure you can find one in Europe. Good Luck!!!

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Here is a hot pipe bender made from a bbq lighter, a fox style bender and a controller made from HD parts.
All tolled under $100.
I bought a silicon blanket from an industrial supplier for about $70.
Making the tooling is enormously satisfying, especially when it works!

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My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.

There is someone selling them on EBay at the moment in the UK at around 50 if in remember correctly

Sent from my Amazon Kindle Fire HD using Tapatalk

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Nick

Follow my musings on getting started in luthiery http://www.tredwellinstruments.co.uk

Thanks Tredwell, I have found a supplier that sells them about 80Eu in Germany. Shipping is cheaper from there i believe, the one on ebay seems to come from China so i have no idea. Any idea where i can get a controller like the one from LMI>? The supplier in germany wants about 300eu for it! LMI sells them for like 200US.

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久保
美智え

I also encourage you to find a piece of metal pipe and torch of some sort or a cheap barbecue heater, and get to work. It will work equally well as a commercial "bending iron", and you can spend that money on some nice wood or something instead. Once you learn how to use the iron, you can make a more informed decision on whether you need a bending machine or not.

Then, if you decide to build a machine: Shipping those heat blankets from the US isn't very expensive, buy it from someone who also sells wood or something else you need, and save on the combined shipping. But a whole bending machine, forget about it. The parts to make one aren't that expensive anyways, you can make a simple one with some plywood, allthread and drywall screws in a couple of hours. I bet any reasonably large town in Austria will have a metal workshop or a roofer that can sell you material for the slats, and you'll be all set. My "heat controller" is a water, which I spray on the outer slats while bending, and the way the water behaves will tell me how hot it is. I still use my 15 year old home made bending iron for one-off shapes, touchups, cutaways etc, so its a very handy skill to know.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Here's an interesting story. I was going to build a pipe bender so I went to my local Midas muffler shop hoping to pick up piece of exhaust pipe. The owner looked at me quizzically after I asked him for some scraps and he said They had NONE. Then equally as quizzically I asked him WTF? It turns out they haven't replaced a muffler in years, they mostly do brakes and shocks etc. but very very few mufflers anymore. So maybe finding an old exhaust pipe may not be that easy anymore.

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Thank You and Best To All

Lol at Larry, If i were to get some pipe i guess id go to the hardware store to find something that wouldnt leak out toxins as i heat it up. It is a sure fire way of course to bend the sides. I have decided i probably wont be satisfied without trying to build a bender machine. So thats what i will set out doing. I am fixing to get some quotes for parts everywhere. Arnt, you only use water as a temp control? While it is easy and traditional way to lower temperature of hot objects, it also sounds to me kind of extreme. I do not know what kind of reaction that type of temperature change will have on the blankets or steel slats. I take your word for it man, but i think i need to baby step into that process. I would rather have the blanket heat consistently at a regulated temp i can see. Still looking for a good controller. I saw some on ebay but i am not sure if they are the correct pid i am searching for. BTW Arnt i will pick up a pipe and a heat source for that just to have on hand, from everyones suggestion.

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久保
美智え

Make your own controller. Go to an electrical wholesaler and get a 2 gang box, a mechanical timer, some cable connectors, a lighting dimmer, an old heavy gauge extension cord or some cable and ends. Under an hour to wire it all together. Works nice and is fairly cheap.

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My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.

Go to Autozone or another parts store. Pick up a truck exhaust extension section. It's about 22" long and stepped on one end. The small end is about 18". Cut that in half. Split the section you cut off, lengthwise by cutting a 1/2" slot down the length with a hacksaw. Squeeze that half together and slide inside the longer piece with the stepped end to give it some beef. Make cuts down the flared end about 1" deep and 1 " wide. Bend those out 90* , drill holes and mount to board with a 3 " hole in it. Put bent charcoal lighter through hole and into pipe so it's a slip fit, touching the sides of the pipe. Find a jar lid that fits and put in the working end to control heat loss. My pipe section cost me something like $7 or 8.00. The smaller end of the pipe is 3" in diameter. Works great. I can post pics later.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Mine is currently even more basic... I asked a mate to cut a short section of scaffold for me, and I stick a blowtorch up it. I bent the sides for all three (so many! ) of my guitars that way. (EDIT: I have since found out that scaffold is galvanised and therefore gives off toxic fumes when a blowtorch is fired up it! I shall buy an aluminium replacement!)

Reason I want a bender for my next two is that I'm using rather expensive, figured wood for the first time and I want to limit the chances of kinks, flat spots, breaks, overbends, underbends, etc, etc. I'm still perfecting my bending technique (to put it mildly) so I'd rather take some of the stress out of the job this time (and next). I certainly haven't given up on improving my pipe bending skills.

After bending 250 or so F and A model mandolins by hand on a Stew Mac electric bending pipe, John Hall's bender is a pleasure. Make my own molds though...

I only use the water to give me an idea of how hot the wood is when I spray water on the metal slats; if just bubbles a bit its still too cool, if evaporates immediately, its too hot, if is sizzles and dances, its perfect etc. Some woods need more heat, some less, and the water will tell me how I'm doing. When the temperature is right I complete the bend quickly, and then I "cook" it a a little in the bender before I turn it off and let it cool down.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin