Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sun Jul 27, 2025 5:46 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:01 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:19 pm
Posts: 614
Location: Sugar Land, TX
First name: Ed
Last Name: Haney
City: Sugar Land (Houston)
State: Texas
Zip/Postal Code: 77479
Country: USA
Focus: Build
What satin finish choices are out there that will go over a Zpoxy pore fill that is NOT sanded back to bare wood (thin coat of epoxy still remaining on wood)?

Thanks in advance for the help. I have a customer that wants a satin finish.

Ed


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:59 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:17 am
Posts: 1031
Location: United States
City: Tyler
State: Texas
I use Nitro with flattening paste in it over epoxy just fine. I'm not sure I understand what your concern is.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:07 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:36 am
Posts: 1595
State: ON
Country: Canada
Status: Professional
I sand back my z-poxy and then mix a thin batch (with denatured alcohol) that I wipe on so the guitar has an even look. I also seal the guitar with shellac before spraying lacquer. Probably a good idea if you are considering using a finish you haven't used before. Test pieces are always good too.

_________________
Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:47 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:19 pm
Posts: 614
Location: Sugar Land, TX
First name: Ed
Last Name: Haney
City: Sugar Land (Houston)
State: Texas
Zip/Postal Code: 77479
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Glen H wrote:
I use Nitro with flattening paste in it over epoxy just fine. I'm not sure I understand what your concern is.


Sorry, Glenn, for not explaining better.

I've been using shellac (Royal Lac) as a final high gloss finish and I'm pleased with it, but my customer that wants a satin finish. I've never used nitro or varnish or poly. My only concern is finding an easy to apply satin finish. A rattle spray can finish would be OK, but I'm not set up with spraying equipment. Maybe satin laq rattle can is the way to go, after sealing with shellac or vinyl? I'm just looking for suggestions.

Level sanding shellac to 2000 leaves a satin finish, but I'm not very happy with that look.

Ed


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:37 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:47 pm
Posts: 138
First name: David
Last Name: Ferraro
City: Franklin
State: Pennsylvania
Zip/Postal Code: 16323
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Josh, can you describe briefly how you cut zpoxy with alcohol? I tried to wipe on a thinned coat, and wasn't happy with the result. Seemed to be not completely soluble and didn't set up well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:41 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:49 pm
Posts: 1209
Location: Ukiah, CA
Pad on 3-4 coats of thinned Ace hardware semi gloss poly.

_________________
Ken Franklin
clumsy yet persistent
https://www.kenfranklinukulele.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:09 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:31 am
Posts: 936
Location: Ottawa, Canada
I'm sure Josh has it working well for him thinning it with alcohol, but the best method I have found for getting an even, thin coat of Zpoxy is to warm it (not too hot!) with a hairdryer and smooth it out with a foam brush. At the right temperature, it will spread out like paint.

Pat

_________________
There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:26 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:17 am
Posts: 1031
Location: United States
City: Tyler
State: Texas
Ed Haney wrote:
Glen H wrote:
I use Nitro with flattening paste in it over epoxy just fine. I'm not sure I understand what your concern is.


Sorry, Glenn, for not explaining better.

I've been using shellac (Royal Lac) as a final high gloss finish and I'm pleased with it, but my customer that wants a satin finish. I've never used nitro or varnish or poly. My only concern is finding an easy to apply satin finish. A rattle spray can finish would be OK, but I'm not set up with spraying equipment. Maybe satin laq rattle can is the way to go, after sealing with shellac or vinyl? I'm just looking for suggestions.

Level sanding shellac to 2000 leaves a satin finish, but I'm not very happy with that look.

Ed


Ed, personally, in my experience, satin is about as easy to use as it gets. Maybe try a satin varnish (I haven't on a guitar, but plenty of cabinets). When satin dulls down to it's final sheen, it tends to hide orange peel and minor blems. The only caveat is that you can't buff or level-sand afterwards, so what you lay down is what you get. Good luck.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:42 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:19 pm
Posts: 614
Location: Sugar Land, TX
First name: Ed
Last Name: Haney
City: Sugar Land (Houston)
State: Texas
Zip/Postal Code: 77479
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Thanks, guys. I do appreciate the input.

I did a test panel yesterday with spay can satin nitro over Zpoxy pore fill and my customer saw it this morning and liked it. Right beside it I did my normal panel in mirror finish shellac over Zpoxy which showed off the grain wonderfully. But he wants a satin that will not show fingerprints. So the decision is made. Its satin nitro from a spray can. It should be easier than shellac gloss finish.

Ed


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:34 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:49 pm
Posts: 1087
First name: peter
Last Name: havriluk
City: granby
State: ct
Zip/Postal Code: 06035
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
About thinning z-poxy with alcohol. I've done it as a matter of course for non-luthierie purposes and I've never had a problem. BUT - - - not all alcohols are made the same. What is needed is solvent grade denatured alcohol, not drugstore rubbing alcohol, which has lots of water in it. The solvent grade alcohol has no water, and it makes a huge difference.

And heating the stuff works wonderfully, for me, to thin it out. I've heated mine on a coffee-cup-warming heating plate my daughter gave me a while ago, very easy to use. Microwave works good, too, but easy to over-do.

_________________
Peter Havriluk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:27 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:34 pm
Posts: 1097
First name: Bob
Last Name: Russell
State: Michigan USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
Ed, Satin finishes are not all equal. I have a lot of furniture finish experience and have had many requests for satin finishes and have used packaged satin lacquer as well as flattening agent and although they produce a beautiful finish you will find that satin lacquer is subject to loosing its satin look fairly easily. The worst offender are finger nails, and a close second is rubbing the finish with your hand or some sort of cloth. Finger nails will leave glossy scratches and rubbing it will leave the finish glossier in some places and the original sheen in others. Both of these actions are pretty common on a guitar.

You should do an experiment on your test piece to see how that particular finish will hold up.

Polyurethane finishes are a bit tougher and are much better at keeping their original sheen but will still gloss up over time. I have tried many methods to get a nice satin finish and the way I do it now works best for me. Instead of spraying the satin on I finish it as I normally would using a gloss finish. Then I use steel wool to get the level of sheen I want. 000 or 0000 will give you a very nice satin finish that will hold up pretty well. I prefer to do it all in one direction with the grain of the wood but have seen guys use circular strokes and get good results. Running them in one direction seems to show off the wood better so that is what I like.

The big advantage to doing it that way is that if they ever want to restore the satin it is just a matter of going over it with steel wool again. You are not removing much finish since you use very light pressure so there is no issues of cutting through the finish as long as you have sufficient coverage to begin with. With a spray satin finish the only thing you can do is spray it again to bring back the same sheen. You can always go over it with steel wool then but it will have a different kind of satin look to it than what you originally sprayed on so you may want to make your client aware of that issue.

But I have found that even different manufactures of satin finishes can be quite different in how they hold up so I would highly suggest before committing to using a factory package satin lacquer you test it to make sure it will actually hold the satin sheen under the use it will get on a guitar.

Bob



These users thanked the author RusRob for the post: Ed Haney (Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:12 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Colin North, Mark L. and 22 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com