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I'm starting an OM build from the Grellier plans and will be using a walnut back and side set and western red cedar the top and top bracing. Does any one have any recomendations as far as making the braces taller or the top thicker when using cedar as opposed to spruce?

Wes when using WRC for the top my bracing remains a function of my voicing and does not look very different than when using a spruce top. However.... I do make my WRC tops thicker to start with and for an OM sized guitar this usually means around .010 - .015" thicker but the top thickness is also very much a function of my deflection testing.

So not much difference in bracing but what I really wanted to add is this:

As a repair guy I see lots of lifted bridges, daily in fact and when we see this on WRC tops invariably the bridge likes to take much more of the top wood with it when it decides to lift.... Or, in other words, WRC tops tear up more than spruce when a bridge lifts. WRC also seems to dent easier than spruce.... an understatement...

As such it's super important when scoring the finish to remove finish where the bridge will be glued on to be very sure that we just score the finish and never any top wood under the finish. I've seen overly scored tops when the bridge lifts take a good .020" of top wood with the bridge making repairing much more complicated, at times....

I've got a Tassy Blackwood, WRC OM sitting next to me that the box is done but I still have to attach the neck. I love the look of WRC with the chocolate browns, etc. and it makes for a great sounding instrument too, IMO ideal for finger style but you can flat pick as well it's just not as "explosive" with the fundamentals IMO as say Adi or Sitka.

Adding on to what Hesh mentioned about WRC pulling up (wood failure) than spruce when a bridge lifts, I think it is important to mention that WRC is much more prone to split along the grain than spruce (as demonstrated by pulling up more wood fibers). For that reason, I would not use WRC as brace-wood. In my mind it would be much more susceptible to failure even when well split to avoid runnout. I could be assuming a problem exists where it doesn't, but I can't shake the notion of a blow to the top causing bracing to peel right off the top or split right through the center (especially in scalloped braces).

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

I'm in the same camp as Hesh on this one...my bracing remains the same as a comparable spruce top, I tend to stick with tapered bracing as opposed to scalloped. However , I do thin my tops to a greater thickness with WRC. I have left cedar tops as thick as 3mm while spruce and englemann are down as low as 2.2mm. Also, while I dislike pickguards I always put a clear pickguard on cedar.....just too easy to scar and dent a cedar top.

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Blue Ring Acoustics
blueringacoustics.ca

Thanks for the advice fellas!!! My first guitar has a cedar top and I have always loved the way it sounds!

I was told by another builder that he always uses the same kind of wood for bracing as for the top. He says once he used a cedar top with spruce bracing and it came back concave. He did say the guy had let it dry out to much but that he tried to humidify it and it didnt work as it usually does. He said that after that he always used the same bracing as the top and has never had problems.

That makes no sense at all Sounds to me like it was probably an early build without humidity control, and braced in really high humidity, with the cause of trouble being misdiagnosed. The braces change very little with humidity, so the species shouldn't matter.

There is a certain elegance to matching top and brace woods, but ever since reading in the Gore/Gilet book that stronger woods are more creep resistant, I've been sticking with spruce. Due to the low density, tall cedar braces can be a bit lighter weight than spruce braces carved to the same stiffness. But they'll still creep faster due to the lower strength.

I built two with redwood braces: one small classical, and one steel string harp ukulele, both in 2012. The classical is fine, but the harp uke is pretty warped. Not sure exactly how much is due to the brace species versus just carving them too low, but I'll be avoiding redwood and cedar braces in the future. They split more easily, too.

I can't see how matching wood species of brace material to top material would be of benefit or detriment in and of itself. Even if the top and braces cape from the same board, they are still glued to each other in an orientation that would negate any effect of them being exactly the same properties. Basing an approach on one data point with a laundry list of unaccounted for confounders can be dangerous.

This is not to say "don't use WRC," I'm sure many do it successfully. I'm just saying the reasoning to do so is suspect. I'd still be concerned about how easily it splits but as I said, I could be worrying where worry isn't warranted. It would be interesting to see how many people use WRC bracing. I'd love to find out that it is a good way to go because I can easily find well quartered WRC stock large enough to split out braces for next to nothing. It would be nice to not have to keep eyeballing every piece of spruce I come across. I suspect though that spruce is better suited. I see tonewood suppliers selling spruce and cedar tops but only spruce bracewood; I have to assume there isn't much market for WRC bracewood.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

I see, I dont really care for the idea of creep or split braces. Like you said Bryan its super easy to find high quality cedar at a really cheap prices.
Spruce Is harder to come by. I would also like to know if allot builders use it and if it produces a guitar that wont last as long.

What is a good source for spruce bracing?

LMII sells a varity of different woods, we purchase brace wood in bulk quantities what they send is very nice. For the most part perfect quarter sawn no runout.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

High Mountain has excellent brace wood, also Kootenay Tonewood. Both stiff and low density. The quality of your brace wood should be of the highest integrity. Loose or split braces are not a whole pile of fun. And this type of brace wood can come from the wood pile or our excellent suppliers or anywhere in between. The value of the wood comes from it's own properties, not who supplied it.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

Thanks for the recomendations fellas!