Official Luthiers Forum!

I have been asked to put a pickup into a commissioned archtop that the buyer wants to sound as much like the acoustic instrument as possible. He plays (non-professionally) in a jazz trio/quartet and needs to be heard in a coffee shop environment. What he says he doesn't want is that typical amplified jazz guitar sound. That's a great sound, but he just was looking for something that sounded more like the un-amplified instrument. I work hard on the acoustic tone, so I take that as a compliment.

On flat tops, I love the KK Pure mini for a faithful reproduction of the guitar's tone. I know that they had an archtop version that people didn't seem to love. It even seems to be discontinued. I'm not a fan of having wires running across the face of guitar, so I don't like their Definity solution for archtops.

What do people on this board like, have used, etc?

Thanks!

I've had a couple of archtop commissions where I was asked to do the same thing. I used k&k pickups. I tried that one that fits under the feet of the bridge; neither me nor the customer liked it very much. I ended up replacing it with a pure mini, and that sounded pretty good. I've used the twin spot as well as the pure mini on a couple of others. I think the pure mini (three elements) was a little better balanced. I just placed the elements as close as I could to directly under the bridge. Wired up passively, though I suppose an external preamp would make it better. There's something about the sound of a good archtop that is impossible to capture even with the best microphone, so no pickups will really be perfect, but we do the best we can, right?

My opinion - pickups will never sound as natural as the acoustic sound.
So I always recommended Ken Donnell's Mini-Flex microphone system (it's internal).
They make a bunch for many applications.... and they sound great.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

No piezo or magnetic pickup will come close to what a quality mike will pick up, no matter what the "magic" pre-amp manufacturers promise. You can't use an Aura or anything thing else to get that real living room sound. You need a clean, high fidelity Amp or Pa and the least possible amount of signal processing. I love my pair of Mackie srm 350v3 powered speakers which have two mike pre-amps built in.
Put a mike up close to the guitar. Behind the bridge is often the best spot. You are miking the wood of the top of the guitar, not the sound hole or the F holes. The holes are there to add extra bass to the tone; a balanced tone doesn't come out of the holes. Use a unidirectional stage mike and aim the tail of the mike exactly at the monitor speaker. Fancy mikes are great but often the inexpensive Shure SM 57 gets the job done just fine. Get the mike like only two inches from the guitar and practice not moving around. Obviously, you can only get so loud before feedback.
There are tiny mikes made for putting inside a guitar but they feed back close to as easy as an external mike. You have to move them all over inside the guitar to find the place that sound right. That's hard enough to do on a round-hole guitar; I'd never want to do it through a pair of F-holes. But it is much more elegant than hauling a mike stand around.
The guitar on Elvis's "Love Me Tender" is a miked archtop. Man, does it sound good.

I don't have pickups on any acoustic guitar I play. But, it is rare enough to find a paying customer. I feel it is my job to make suggestions, but also honor their requests. I don't really want to argue with them why they shouldn't get a pickup.

It is encouraging to hear a Pure Mini worked successfully on an archtop. I suppose if the customer doesn't like it I'll use them on a flat top.

I'll also look into the Mini-flex. Any other recommendations out there?


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I just recently used the K&K Twin Spot Internal for an arch top I bought and it worked great and sounds great to me. They still have them if you go to their site and click on twin spot it gives two types (internal and external). If you are going to install it before closing the box I don't see why the Pure Mini wouldn't work great, the extra T couldn't hurt.

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"I've been had again"
Tim Benware
Creedmoor, NC

Fishman makes an ebony archtop bridge with piezos built into it. It has a very natural sound.