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Where have I heard that before?

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

I think it matters more depending on how you build- I.e if you build a loose box and are using the materials themselves as the structure, the wood choice may matter more. I have been using more arching, double sides, CF in the neck, etc... and do not notice huge changes from different back and side woods. Some, to be sure, but not as much as what i see others implying in their own work. I have been interested in building differently to see how that might open up the guitars to be influenced by things like that but just don't have the time. I wish I did!

Something I have heard others say, and I agree with, is that in really old guitars it doesn't seem to matter what the back and sides are. Really old mahogany, really old Brazilian- to me they sound great in a very similar way, almost no difference. Whether that is the wood, or the build, or the age, I do not know.

I also reserve the right to change my mind immediately on adding more examples to the mix! In new guitars and old-

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

I find that interesting Burton. I've long been wondering if the more modern build styles eliminate some of the influence of the back and sides materials. You build a very stiff and complex rim structure compared to a traditional guitar, it would not surprise me if it neutralized some of the influence from the back and sides wood.

Yes- in this case it does seem to but I don't understand why- The back can still vibrate, and is not laminated. You would think it would still color the sound more than it does. It makes me think that how the back and side wood contributes to the overall structure is as important as the surface, or resonating capability etc...

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

I think old guitars do sound closer. The rosewood seems to get drier and the mahogany gets richer. Still prefer the bite of mahogany though.

Burton, that is why I think about it the way I do. I think in a traditional build, the material damping properties are more able to wick off certain freqs and pass others through, whereas in your very stiff structures that aspect is somewhat curbed.

It is my feeling that it has more to do with the sides than the back, as it it the sides that the top is mounted too, if that makes sense. If we made one guitar with cork sides, and one guitar with glass sides, I think we would all expect the glass sided guitar to have more high end overtones. Just for an exaggerated example...

I've noticed that as well -- many of the old Martins that come through the shop have a distinctive dryness to them, whether mahogany or rosewood -- they seem to "open up" to a convergent tone over time.


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Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com

The conventional wisdom is that maple flat top guitars are bright with not so impressive bass response. I haven't played one of the new 600 series Taylors that have maple back and sides, but if the altered back bracing used in them results in a good bass response and a warm full sound as they say it does despite being maple, then it's pretty clear that the influence of the back and sides wood on the overall sound can be modified significantly by other aspects of the guitar. A rosewood HD-28 sounds very different from a good rosewood Selmer type guitar which in my experience has little of the stereotypical tonal qualities that rosewood is often presumed to bestow on a guitar. Maybe generalizations about the effects of the type of wood ought to come with a caveat: it depends.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Most (if not all) vintage selmers were laminated, only the outer layer being rosewood - that could change things a bit.
Interesting thing about the one convergence of old wood species - wish I had more access to the vintage stuff.

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

Interesting thought. I wonder then, how a thin veneer of cork might affect the tone of a guitar. One could easily tape some onto the inside of the sides of a guitar to see if the surface texture of the sides has any impact on the tone... It shouldn't affect the back or top movement at all, unless it is in synergy with them.
If that makes any sense.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Go for it! I would expect it to have less impact than if you could magically insert a layer of cork between the top and the linings...

That's true, but the Selmer style guitar I was referring to was a Shelley Park Encore I used to have which had solid rosewood sides.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Shelley does things her own way!

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

I think it's illegal to show a frequency plot in a non-scientific discussion on tone.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com