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giltzow
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:38 am 
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Terence Kennedy wrote:
Are Gerald Sheppard and John Greven still using waterbased?


Just got an answer from Gerald Sheppard



"Hi Mike,



Thanks for the nice comment. I use General Finishes Enduro-Var."

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These users thanked the author giltzow for the post: Terence Kennedy (Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:36 am)
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Mike OMelia
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:00 am 
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Tim Mullin wrote:
giltzow wrote:
Terence Kennedy wrote:
Are Gerald Sheppard and John Greven still using waterbased?



Sometimes just best to ask - so I wrote John & Gerald and got the following response from John:

"Mike;
I am using and have been using for the last five years Enduro-var oil emulsion water base varnish from General Finishes. I get it at my local Woodcrafters. Looks like nitro but has more elasticity and will never degrade of check, sands and buffs easily, cures to sand-able in 30 minutes, recoat about the same. They also make a great flat version of the finish for necks.

It is an entire finishing process and is simple in essence but requires practice to get right. I don't have time to lay it all out for you, but the trick about it is to use System Three Silvertip epoxy as the sealer/ filler under this finish. I do two or three coats of the epoxy (depending on the pore size) and sand it back to flat before applying 6 coats of the Enduro with a small touch up gun. Wait one additional day after the last coat and fine sand with 1500/2000/4000 and buff to a high nitro gloss. The whole finish process is about 5 days to buff out.
John "

Now that's an option I'd like to know more about. Wonder why epoxy is a key "trick"? (I use West 105/207 on body, but LMII acrylic paste on necks). Sounds like a very workable alternative and readily available in Canada. Anyone else have experience to share with Enduro-Var?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Wow. Just 6 coats? That's amazing. Can anybody else say that's what they experienced as well? I'm finding it goes on quite well.
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Colin North
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:23 am 
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Quote:
Wow. Just 6 coats? That's amazing. Can anybody else say that's what they experienced as well? I'm finding it goes on quite well.

I did around 9 coats on B & S, and 6 coats on top.
This post may be worth a read, please continue onto the second page too.
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43510&p=574924&hilit=+enduro+var+coats#p574924

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.
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Mike OMelia
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:37 am 
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Well, so far, it's going very well. I don't know if it's the Walcom EGO gun or the EV finish. But I've never had the base coats go on this smooth! Got three on last night. Gonna do a scuff with a scotch brite pad, and get 6 more tonight.


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Colin North
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:13 am 
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Yummy! Can't wait to see them finished.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.
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SteveSmith
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:18 am 
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That looks real good Mike. I've sprayed shellac, EM6000, Polywhey, nitro, and Royal Lac from my EGO HVLP gun and they all went on smooth. It's a good little gun.

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ernie
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:48 am 
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enduro var, varnish by brush plus 1 . I use shellac as a sealer. don/t care for the look of waterborne .but it is easy to apply.
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kencierp
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:18 am 
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Interesting -- Ernie did you see this?

Quote:
Sent this brief inquiry to General Finishes over the weekend. I suspect some won't like their answer.


Receive Product Update Emails:

What is the purpose of this request?

Compatibility -- Can Enduro WB varnish be applied over Zpoxy pore filler? Can it be applied over shellac? What is the recommended product to fill pores in East Indian Rosewood?

Thank you, Ken

Reply

Tom Monahan Today at 12:58 PM
To
kencierp@yahoo.com

Enduro Var is NOT compatible with shellac. You will have adhesion failure. It can be used over epoxy. AS pore fillers go Timbermate or Color Tone from Stew-Mac works fine with our products.

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http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

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Colin North
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:46 am 
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Now, I am in no way argumentative here, but I also inquired for reasons that are stated in the query and received a slightly fuller reply.

Quote:
A member if a forum I frequent very recently inquired as to whether Enduro-Var was compatibie with shellac and you replied "Enduro Var is NOT compatible with shellac. You will have adhesion failure."
I finished a guitar with Enduro-var over shellac (Z-epoxy pore fill) and have had no problems with it after 2 1/2 years.
The shellac I used was de-waxed (made from fresh flakes) and I wondered 2 things
1) Am I still likely to see adhesion failure after this length of time? I would have expected to see signs of this long before now.
2) Could you have been talking about shellac which has not been dewaxed? (In that case I could easily understand compatability problems) Thanks in advance Colin


And got a prompt reply

Quote:
The warning about shellac came out after lab testing showed mixed results with adhesion over shellac. We tested Zinssers Sealcoat. I feel mil thickness is critical. The problem is if you build too much film thickness with shellac the oil modified urethane in the EV cannot bond properly to the wood.

Failure would occur within 24-48 hours. We concluded that it was best to use EV as a self-sealing finish.


The shellac in my case was freshly made blonde 1lb cut lightly wiped on, 3 coats and scuffed when well dry with grey scotchbrite (over Z-poxy B & S, bare spruce on the top)
Maybe I got lucky being a very light application, maybe Zinssers Sealcoat is slightly different to fresh shellac, who knows.
So caution is definitely advised if you want to use shellac - test panels.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.
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