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I have never built a guitar before. I am in the process of buying all the tools right now and have done quite a bit of research on how to build one. I am a cabinet builder so i know i can build one that looks descent. i just want it to sound good too. right now i play a 214 taylor acoustic cutaway that sounds awsome . if i build one i dont want to be disapointed in the sound. I know the wood you use for the body is a big part of how is sounds. I am going to build a maple guitar for starters since it has a bright sound and is a fairly cheap wood. The part im really intimidated by is shaping the bracing on the back and top/soundboard. they make it look easy on videos but im sure its not easy. so does that really control the sound of a guitar that much or what makes a good sounding guitar? i see you can buy pre carved bracing too any thoughts on that?

I have been a part one way or another at the lutherie program at Palomar College in San Marcos for a dozen years. In that time I've seen probably close to two hundred guitars by first time luthiers.

The biggest problem, BY FAR, is that people underestimate the complexity of the project, bog down, and never complete their guitar. As I always tell new students, the worst sounding guitar is the one sitting in a box in your garage.

In all those years I never heard a hand made guitar from a first time luthier that didn't sound better than ANY Taylor. I mean that, ANY TAYLOR.

You may find your first guitar is not as cosmetically flawless as a pro luthier. You will probably leave your neck a little chunky (I don't know why first time builders seem scared of carving their necks all the way). It will only play as well as it is set up, so don't rush that. But, I can almost guarantee it will SOUND as good and probably better than the best and most expensive new factory made guitar.


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You've came to the right forum.
Everyone here will help you !

Mike

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Mike Collins

I've seen some first guitars that were better then my 10th and vice versa. It seems to me that you may have high expectations which can be a blessing and a curse. As rlrhett said some don't finish and others take far far too long. Another friend of mine who built his first guitar literally took 2 years to do it because he is an anal engineering type and everything had to be perfect. If you make dumb cosmetic mistakes deal with it and move on.

A healthier attitude might be, "I want to build my first guitar so that when I'm on my 10th I will finally have a nice one."

Of course with your cabinet making skills and in some cases if you have natural talent you might build a beauty on your first. I'm just trying to set the stage so you don't get disspointed and give up. Chances are your first guitar will sound good and maybe even look good but if it doesn't play good then it's worthless so concentrating on the mechanics of building is probably more important then the way it looks or even worrying about the tone. Because if you make a solid guitar by the book and the set up is spot on the tone will follow to some extent.

Good luck.

....."You've came to the right forum. Everyone here will help you !"
I guess he meant everyone else.
Ken

Fit and finish. That's the hard part. Setup is hard to master as well. I'm still working through that process. Guitars are complex geometric shapes. And all of that geometry serves some purpose. The only flat surface on a guitar is the peghead plate. And the bottom of the saddle. Maybe the top, but I don't like flat tops. Most build them with a large radius. Order a set of OLF plans from the bookstore (above). And give yourself time. Order a template too. Order a mold and bending form for your plan set from John Hall at blues creek. Get two radiusing dishes, 15 and 25 feet with sandpaper. Build a go-bar deck and get after it!

I had a Taylor 214CE which I believe is what you have?

I built a Martin rosewood dreadnaught kit then sold the Taylor. I may have gotten lucky on the dred & the Taylor may have been a sonic dog but everyone agreed that the dred sounded better - much fuller & more interesting.

I just scalloped the bracing to the StewMac dred plans.

If you read up on what others have done in terms of top thickness and bracing you won't make a bad sounding guitar. If you enjoy working with wood & you like guitars...

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

This is truly a great place to learn. So many helpful talented people willing to share their knowledge.

Shaping bracing is not difficult especially if you have woodworking and tool sharpening chops. It's pretty fun. There are lots of photos to help you along the way. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Even if you think they are dumb ones. We've all asked some.

thanks for all the responses! someone mentioned to focus more on the play ability. what shoud i all keep in mind when im building to get the guitar to play well?

I don't think you'll find too many posts where a newish builder says their recently finished creation sounds like crap -- mainly because a lightly built well constructed solid wood guitar with a properly set neck and reasonable action will play well and sound as good if not better than many of the instruments found music store racks. I too have heard some very nice sounding 214's representing a good value -- however, I do think the new builder is capable of coming close to that bench mark. To get things moving and on course you may want consider a kit for the first project. Our kits take out the guess work as well as reducing the need for internet and literary research since the complete build process is on line. Kits are generally based on formula designs so sound characteristics are somewhat predictable.

As pointed out above many get bogged down with the "paralysis through analysis" syndrome. Knowing that you are headed in the right direction at the offset remove stress and adds to the enjoyment.

Even with the finishing process -- follow the chemical manufacture's recommendation, make sure the products are compatible and most likely the results will be good.

Enjoy the journey!

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Welcome!
I'm a hobby builder,
and what I did is build as many jigs and tools that I could.
Being a carpenter,
I had most of the big tools.
Instead of a radius jig,
I made a go bar deck, with a matching sanding sled with a 25' radius.
Works great, with minimal cost,
but if ya like to buy tools, go for it.
As far as the bracing, that's the hardest part for me.
Not gluing them,
but shaping them, without going too far.
Get a set of plans, and go with the brace dimensions, and you'll be fine.
Good luck!
The hardest visual part is the bindings!
Instead of a side bending jig,
you could try a hot pipe and bend by hand.
Its not that hard.
Then there is the finish!

The geometry of the string plane in relationship to the fingerboard. As for tone, plate thicknesses and brace dimensions are key. Plenty of highly detailed information on these topics can be easily found here and elsewhere.

FWIW, I've played many factory-made guitars, including Taylors, that I thought were exceptionally fine sounding guitars. I've also played a few handmade, solo-luthier instruments that I thought were just "okay." Whatever. It's not a contest.

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George :-)

"The part im really intimidated by is shaping the bracing on the back and top/soundboard. they make it look easy on videos but im sure its not easy. so does that really control the sound of a guitar that much "

No, it doesn't. Much of the sound is in the wood of the top. The braces are there (mostly) to counteract the stresses placed on it by the pull of the strings. To some extent they do modify the modes of vibration, but not enough to stress about in a first guitar. Many different patterns will work.
My advice would be to get a good plan and follow it and not study too much beyond that for a first guitar. As others have said, it will probably sound better than most factory instruments if you follow the plan.
As with cabinetmaking, finishing is half the battle, and if you have a finish you are proficient with your first instrument can look quite presentable. I built instruments before, during, and after my career as a cabinetmaker. Cabinetmaking will help with the assembly and finishing, but the finer points can only be mastered by building.

Ok, I'll take a step beyond just words of encouragement to concrete advice:

1)get a good set of plans. I've been impressed with the plans from Georgia Luthier Supply. Follow them faithfully.
2) get a good construction guide. The Cumpiano and Nattleson book is a standard.
3) when you get stuck on a step, work it out with test pieces.
4) if you really are stuck, ask here.

If you do that, I can almost guarantee a good sounding guitar. I don't think you were hoping to test your guitar against factory guitars in some kind of contest, but I believe most here will agree that if your yardstick is your Taylor you will likely be pleased.


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Consider a kit.

Thicknessing tops, voicing braces, getting proper neck angle/upper bout geometry to allow proper setup and actually accomplishing that setup optimally with good fretwork are the things that take many instruments to fine tune. We won't even talk about the hardest thing, finishing.

There is a ton of good info in the archives of this forum on those topics via the search engine.

You still have to do all that stuff with a kit. Why not ease the immersion with a few pre made parts that in reality are just carpentry.

If you are hooked after a couple of kits and like what you are hearing (you will!) take a good building course and shave five years off your learning curve when starting to build from scratch. The trees will thank you.

Just my two cents.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

It's not a mistake unless you can't fix it

Ed

I too recommend a kit for your first foray into building an instrument.

I bought my first from John Hall and the support was incredible from him and also from this forum. He also has a ton of Youtube video's showing how to do many steps in the building process.

It's not a simple woodworking project by any stretch of the imagination, however, that very first chord you play on a newly strung guitar is just awesome! (and almost always a G chord...Ha)

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Guitar Building = Continuous Improvement Process

A kit is a good idea. When was the last time you tried something new and hit it out of the park? Kits are good because they show you things. They are not easy. But there is so much jig making in guitar building.

A good sounding guitar is hard. A great playing guitar is many notches above that. kits are a good approach. I've done several. Learned a lot from them.

The design of the guitar has been worked out over a long time by some pretty smart folks. There's a lot of incentive to improve it, and every time somebody comes up with a design feature that works better, all the other makers adopt it right away to keep from being left behind. Thus all of the good stuff is more or less already in there, and it's hard to improve on the traditional designs.

Most factories over build them a bit to avoid warranty issues. They also have to assume that their weakest top will end up with the weakest set of bracing once in a while, just by chance, so that's another incentive for them to over build. You can probably lighten up a bit which will translate into more sound. The trick, of course, is to know how and where.

I tell my students that given the fact that the designs are so good, just building carefully with good wood will most likely end up making a better than average guitar. There are things you can do to tweak it, and in this situation small improvements count for a lot, but it's hard to make a bad one if you're careful.

In my experience, here is the hardest thing for an experienced woodworker to understand about building an acoustic guitar: In normal carpentry work, you're always thinking strong and durable. You might want to hold down the cost of the wood and the weight, but after that you are helping out the customer by using your ingenuity to make the thing stronger.
Acoustic guitars have been developed so that each part is just barely strong enough to last. The whole thing is an eggshell that vibrates all over in reaction to the strings. Guitar makers use their ingenuity to figure out how to make a part lighter but still just barely strong enough. So as you make your guitar, look at how flexible that part is on a really good sounding guitar and try to copy the flexibility: really stiff wood can be made thinner than more flexible wood. This is also one reason why quarter-sawn wood is the norm.
Also many carpenters think that 1/64 of an inch is incredibly small, but a good guitar action depends on getting the surface described by the top of the frets right to a thousandth of an inch.
Good luck, and have fun!