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 Post subject: Re: End Wedge Miter
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:30 am 
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Here is another approach. I butt the bindings and purflings at the center seam. Once the bindings have been scraped I use a template and a router to create the channel. I cleanup the corner with a sharp chisel, cut the purflings to fit, then cut a piece of stock to fill the remaining space. Lots of opportunities to grab a fresh piece of purf and try again if you didn't get it just right.


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These users thanked the author Michaeldc for the post (total 3): J De Rocher (Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:22 pm) • Imbler (Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:45 pm) • bcombs510 (Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:40 am)
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 Post subject: Re: End Wedge Miter
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:05 am 
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My main tool for this is a razor sharp chisel with a mirror polish on the back. If your end wedge is in place when you cut your binding channels you have to raise your router up by the depth of the purfling strip in the area of the wedge. I just come close at full purfling depth, then tap a small plate the same thickness as the purfling, to the top. Then finish routing. Sneaking up to the wedge at regular depth is where I get in trouble if there is going to be any. As someone said the cutting of the actual miters is easier than it looks.
Tom

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These users thanked the author Tom West for the post: bcombs510 (Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:00 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: End Wedge Miter
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:33 pm 
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bcombs510 wrote:
kencierp wrote:
At this link Charlie Hoffman shows the trim miter technique used by many:

http://www.hoffmanguitars.com/bindingBODY%202.htm


Thanks, Ken.

For this to work I have to put the bottom purfling and binding on in two steps, correct? Otherwise I will be trying to miter just the purfling while attached to the binding and then cutting off the purfling that would be covering the channel for the wedge. Is that correct? Here is a ridiculous drawing I did to show what I mean:

Attachment:
Binding.jpg


I already have binding with purfling attached. If I have to do it in two steps that's fine, I'm just curious of this approach is used or if I'm inviting more trouble? :)



BTW: After much hand wringing last night, I'm going to cut the binding and end wedge back out and try again. I'm such an anal dude. laughing6-hehe


Your drawing is correct.

An alternative approach is to install the side purfling and the binding separately. I've done this on two guitars now based on Mike Glitzow's posts in this thread: http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44831&p=608253&hilit=side+purfling+install#p608253

I like this way of doing it because it's easier to get good miters in the side purfling at the end graft and at the cutaway than when the side purfling is attached to the binding. It makes the purfling miters and the binding joints at the end graft two separate operations instead of having to get them both right on the money at the same time. I bend the side purfling when I bend the binding by sandwiching it between the binding strips and taping them all together.

To rout past the end graft, I use the trick of putting a shim above the end graft to raise the router up by the thickness of the purfling as has been suggested above. I use a couple pieces of the side purfling CA-glued onto a piece of double-sided tape stuck on the top or back. The ramps on either side of the end graft in the second photo get taken out with a chisel. I got this specific method from another OLF thread. I wish I could remember who posted it to give them credit.

Attachment:
End graft binding purfling routing 1.jpg

Attachment:
End graft binding purfling routing 2.jpg


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These users thanked the author J De Rocher for the post: giltzow (Tue May 03, 2016 12:28 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: End Wedge Miter
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:21 pm 
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Thanks for the photos, Jay. That helps. So it looks like after you cut the ramps in photo #2 away with the chisel you would then 45 the purfling on the end wedge. This looks like a good plan and I will try this approach over the weekend. Thanks for the help!

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 Post subject: Re: End Wedge Miter
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:30 pm 
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bcombs510 wrote:
Thanks for the photos, Jay. That helps. So it looks like after you cut the ramps in photo #2 away with the chisel you would then 45 the purfling on the end wedge.


Yes, that's right.

Also, if you try a shim approach like in the photo, make a trial pass with your router over the shim (router off) to make sure the shim stays put and doesn't get shifted by the router riding up onto it. Ask me how I know. The ends of the purfling shims in the photo are angled to help the router ride up onto them easily.

Also, there are some good photos of one way to use a chisel to cut away the ramps on this page: http://theartoflutherie.com/precision-guitar-purfling/ starting at the fifth photo down the page.

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 Post subject: Re: End Wedge Miter
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:11 pm 
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Awesome. Thanks for the help! I'll post pics over the weekend and hopefully take a victory lap around the shop. :)

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 Post subject: Re: End Wedge Miter
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:28 pm 
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Jay: I just run the router to about a 1/8" of the tail wedge purfling . Do it on both sides and then install spacer and route over the tail wedge. No ramping.................makes it much easier to clean up the excess with sharp chisel.
Tom

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These users thanked the author Tom West for the post: bcombs510 (Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:34 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: End Wedge Miter
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:38 pm 
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Tom West wrote:
Jay: I just run the router to about a 1/8" of the tail wedge purfling . Do it on both sides and then install spacer and route over the tail wedge. No ramping.................makes it much easier to clean up the excess with sharp chisel.
Tom


Why didn't I think of that? Thanks for the tip! I will use it on the next one for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: End Wedge Miter
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:23 pm 
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J De Rocher wrote:
Tom West wrote:
Jay: I just run the router to about a 1/8" of the tail wedge purfling . Do it on both sides and then install spacer and route over the tail wedge. No ramping.................makes it much easier to clean up the excess with sharp chisel.
Tom


Why didn't I think of that? Thanks for the tip! I will use it on the next one for sure.


Just be very careful when getting close.................... I have had to forgo doing miters on more then one guitar because I ran into tail piece purfling...!!! Not happy days when one does that...!!
Tom

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These users thanked the author Tom West for the post (total 2): J De Rocher (Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:34 pm) • bcombs510 (Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:02 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: End Wedge Miter
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 4:01 pm 
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once you get the hang of it it is pretty easy, at least the way I do it which is miter the purfling only. The binding is just butted together. That actually is the more 'standard' way of doing it.

It looks to me that the error in the upper left corner is not the purfling attached to the binding but the purfling attached to the back strip. It is to short. It needs to be taller like the other side.

Don't see any easy fixes


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 Post subject: Re: End Wedge Miter
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 4:21 pm 
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But.... the easiest fix I can see is this:

Use a razor blade and shave a little of the top of the side wood on that upper left side. Take it down until the top of the side is flush with the bottom of the taper on the back graft purfling. taper it in an inch or two.

Separate the purfling from the bindind and push it down into place. You probably will have to recut the bevel in the purfling.

Once it looks good. take some shaving of binding material and fill the gap.

If it looks good CA everything in place.

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These users thanked the author Joe Beaver for the post: bcombs510 (Sun May 01, 2016 5:09 pm)
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