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Hello,

This is not really a guitar question, but I wonder what most folks prefer. My shop is in the basement with a concrete floor. Everything I drop, no matter what height it's dropped from, is damaged. I'm thinking of flooring for the area to save my low back and save me frustration from ruining work, or at least to give it a fighting chance.

All my equipment is on castors so I'll need to be able to move equipment around. I thought about just using the vapor barrier subfloor they sell at Home Depot in 2x2 squares but after figuring it up its going to be pretty expensive.

Any advice on what you folks have used in home shops?

Thanks!
Brad


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Brad--

I actually put a LOT of thought into this recently, because my wife and I thought we were going to be moving to a different house, and I did some planning. We wound up not moving, so it was wasted effort, but I can pass along my thoughts, in no particular order of importance:

1. Think about the ceiling height if you install flooring. Putting down something like vinyl squares (some are not as ugly as they sound) will not rob you of ceiling height, but putting down hardwood or pine over sleepers will.

2. Water. If there is any water in the basement, or any possibility of water ever getting in, you have to choose flooring that would not result in a disaster if it got wet.

3. Cost. Hardwood over sleepers is expensive, but hardwood over the elevated subfloor squares you mentioned is even more expensive. Vinyl squares are pretty cheap.

4. Getting fancy. Some folks get super fancy and put dust collection piping, or electrical wiring, into the spaces made by putting down sleepers. I am not in favor of that, because it limits the flexibility of the room.

If I had the ceiling height to allow for it, and if I had a guarantee that no water would get in, I would be happiest with utility grade real oak flooring over sleepers. Maybe paint it a dark color. But, I have to settle for vinyl squares over the concrete. They are actually very functional, and look pretty good. If I mess one up with my woodworking (it has happened), I can replace it with the stash of extras I keep in a closet. The vinyl somewhat protects my tools when (not if; when) I drop them. It is easy to sweep and mop. It is not too slick when sawdust gets on it. It is not my ideal, but I am happy enough with it. If I ever move, I will figure out a way to get hardwood. That's the best, in my opinion.

I'm also on a slab and just got some rubber mats from woodcraft. They are under $10us on sale. Low budget and it works. Certainly not fancy. Easy to move when I want to roll a machine around. I've had these for about 12 years.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I would suggest floor mats too depending on how often you move the equipment that's on castors and how widely distributed the dropage area is around your shop. One or more strategically placed floor mats might do the trick. My shop floor is concrete too and I have one mat by my island bench which is on casters. I do most of my work at that bench so the mat saves my feet and makes for a cushy landing if I drop something. If mats would work for you, they would be a whole lot cheaper and easier than a new floor.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Commercial grade carpet squares are one of the best things I stumbled upon. They are only .200" but give a surprising amount of cushion. They also have a vapor barrier and lie flat, even without tape or glue. You can easily roll stuff over them. They are not really sweep able though so plan accordingly.

I have some of those interlocking foam pieces in my main work area where I'm standing a lot. And some nice foamy kitchen mats around other work areas I have the wine ones, but cat ones work as well.

This is the interior part of my shop. The outside part which has most of the big dust and sawdust makers just has the concrete.

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Pat

Hey, I have those same hand weights I see in your cabinet. I use one of them for deflection testing. Does this make them official luthier tools?

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Oh yes, those are luthier weights. Well worth twice the price!

And Brad, yes, this is a guitar question. How can we build if we cannot stand?!

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Pat

I too have a concrete floor. It is just painted with an oil base paint and I have the interlocking mats from harbor freight where I do the most standing and dropping. At the time, I wanted something cheap, that would allow me to roll stuff around on but not be damaged should water be a problem (luckily it has been dry as a bone). I would have done the floating interlocking composite flooring but it is not very water resistant. If I were to do it today, I would get the vinyl floating floor. Rather than interlocking, they have overlapping sections with pressure sensitive adhesive. Being vinyl is is very water resistant and would probably be soft enough to not chip a dropped chisel and not chip itself either. The Home Depot here has a large selection of fake wood and stone finishes between $2 and $3 per square foot. It doesn't look like real hardwood by any means but would be nice enough for a shop floor. Really heavy stationary tools or casters may crush it down though.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Oh the horror...... Look at all that dirt......

Nice, thick, cushy floor mats from Woodcraft in front of the benches. Not perfect but good enough to keep me from thinking about it ever again.

AND you can lift them up to clean under them...

Ha, I deserved that one

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5864FBC1

Hope this link works--imagine a few capable folks here could take this to a new level!

Another type of floor that interests me is an end grain block floor. Apparently, you cut a bazillion short (1-3 inches) blocks of wood, bunch them up against each other on top of a subfloor, and put some sort of grout in the gaps. They are supposed to be very strong and tough.

Nah, that is what a shop floor should look like between cleanings. I like the look of tons of chips and shavings on the floor after a flurry of activity. I also like the look of seeing how clean it get again when I get around to sweeping and vacuuming.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Exterior grade plywood over sleepers. Love it.

Had that in my old shop. No chipped chisels when you drop them.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

If you put down sleepers, think about spacing. The weight of your stationary tools is a factor, the strength of the flooring material is a factor, too. 12" centers would be strong, 16" centers a little less so. It's a judgment call.

12" centers, 3/4" ply glued and screwed. Bulletproof. Don't have it in my shop but I've done it elsewhere.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Thanks for all the excellent feedback. For the sleepers, what thinkness and width would be recommended if you use 3/4 ply? Using 3/4 strips for the sleepers would make the whole thing too think I would think.


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That's the problem with using sleepers. For the projects I've done in the past the minimum height for the sleepers that I used was 1 1 /2" (treated 2x4's laying on the side) so the floor height increased 2 1/4". I've also dealt with one situation where moisture from the slab combined with poor ventilation under the floor encouraged termites and they ate up part of the floor (and a chunk of wall too). And that's why I have the mats from Woodcraft in my shop

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

My shop is in the basement and I use a few kitchen mats also. I did paint the concrete floor with white latex.
It seems to me that the white floor helps brighten up the place. Before I leave home for a few days I touch up the floor and let it dry while I'm gone.

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Say what you do, Do what you say.

Rubber mats ---- helpful for spine health too

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

I have a knee meniscus about as worn as the paint on the concrete where I spend most of my time.



I love these squishy mats but I couldn't use my rolling stool on them so I was constantly was sliding them around.




I don't know why it took me so long to realize I could top them with thin ply and get the best of both worlds.



Lest anyone come in my shop and think I'm not a "real" luthier, I think I better keep my lutherie weights more prominently displayed.

Brad--

Yep, Steve is right on the money. If you want a wood floor, you have to have something between the concrete and the flooring. Sleepers are the common way to do it. But, if the basement gets wet at all, you will eventually have a problem, even if you use pressure treated 2X4s. Those squares you saw at Home Depot, that have a plastic grid under an OSB layer? Those help avoid rot and mold by letting the water just trickle along underneath, but they are expensive. And all of this makes you lose ceiling height. While I covet the wood floors I see in above-ground shops, I know I can't have one.

one thing not to forget is traction on the top surface.
A lot of surfaces have traction when the'r clean but a little dust turns them into skating rinks.
I've worked in some shops that were death traps when sawdust was on the floor. One was finished wood. The other was linoleum. Even smooth concrete has had me doing unplanned chorus line kicks to stay upright. Not good around the 7-10hp shapers in that place.
MY current shop has paint that I mixed silica (I think) sand into . There are a couple of small patches that don't quite have enough. I should have added more.
Make sure what ever you end up with passes the wood dust traction test.