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I have a bar of medium grade Menzera (GW16, I think it was) for use on a buffing wheel. It's served me well over the years and there's plenty of the bar left. However, it seems to have gone dry and hard and will no longer coat the buff. Are there any tricks to rejuvenating this stuff or just chuck it?

(I have a bar of fine compound bought at the same time, stored in the same conditions, used in the same way etc. etc. which still works fine).

Thanks in anticipation.

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

I/ve tried heating cheap tape for 10 sec in the microwave trev , (works)would a vy short burst of heat soften the compound. ?? Perhaps someone who/s tried or a chemist might chime in.

Bloody good question!
I still struggle at the buffing wheel to get the result I want. I've been thinking seriously of chucking my Menzerna and buffs, and replacing with something else -- but what?

Can't help you with your question but I'm curious how old it it?

It would appear to take an awful lot of guitars to use up a stick.

Has anyone here actually got down to a little nubby end?

I have some compound I've had for over 10 years and it is still ok. Interesting.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Many, many times........

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jw ( o)===:::

Tried that. No, unfortunately. I assumed the matrix was some sort of wax/tallow compound, but 20s in the microwave did nothing with respect to raising its temperature. I sawed the end off; it feels a touch waxier, but still won't coat the buff. It was fairly cold for here (18C). I'm more often working at ~25+C, which might make a difference

8 years.

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

I had troubles once with the buff not taking the menzerna. Finally figured out that it was due to the belt slipping.

Chuck

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Oh thank Goodness!!! I thought another luthier and/or musician had died.

I'd try a question to the source. https://www.menzerna.com/contact/contact-form/ I'm sure this isn't an isolated problem.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

I have some Menzerna sticks that are seven years old with no probs, but if that happened to me, I'd try rehumidifying it, putting it in a plastic bag with a slightly damp sponge. Might take a while; if it took years to dry out, could be that long to rehumidify.

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Only clues from MSDS is that it contains hydrocarbons but is "soluble in water"-?
http://homesteadfinishingproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/msds_menzernaPO91E.pdf
I suppose you could try steaming a small lump for a bit?
Or contacting their experts as suggested.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Saint Erlewine suggests "pre-heating" your wheel by running it on a block of raw wood for a minute or so, allowing the buff to take the compound easier. I did find that it helps.


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Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com

I have compounds that are years old as well. I find that a freshly raked buff takes compound very well.

The problem appears to have been that the compound was too cold. I left it in the sun and warmed it to ~30C and everything started to work again.

A thing to think about here: Does your buffer have enough power? Recommended is 1/3 HP, which is what I have (because that happened to be the rating on the washing machine motor I had). That's just OK for buffing once you get the compound on, but is not enough to put enough heat onto the buff to soften the compound without stalling the buff. (This is the Stewmac rig with 14" double buffs each side). Twice that installed HP would probably not be overpowering, but would help get some heat into the system on a cold (18C ) day.

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

I too have been using old Menzerna compounds 8-10 years old. It occurred to me that they didn't seem to be working as well as I thought they should based on the results other were getting with similar grade compounds. I ordered a bar of medium compound from SM a few weeks back since I had an order going in anyway. The new stuff works twice as good, cut my buffing time in half with better results. Wish I had thought to try something different sooner...

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

I need to have my eyes checked. I thought the title of this tread said, Dead McKenna.

I'm nought dead yet!

Interesting, Josh. Thanks for posting.

I take it that the new stuff you got was the SM (ColorTone) branded stuff?



That rating was correct because I checked it. However, whilst checking out the ColorTone compound I noticed that the motor SM sell for their buffer is rated 3/4 HP. Go figure!

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

Yes it is ColorTone. I had to put in an SM order and thought I'd give it a try. I may pick up a new bar of Menzerna to see how it compares. Since they are relatively cheap I figure I should do some expirumenting. I had been reading other people's posts and on different sites that I should easily be able to go from 1200 grit to a medium compound. However the old bar of Menzerna Med didn't seem to be working as well as it used to. I was having to sand finer and buff multiple times to get good results. With the new stuff I'm having no trouble going from 1200 to the med compound.

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Thanks, Josh.

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

Thanks for that remark, Trevor. My Menzerna compound seemed to work poorly since moving back to Canada, and to a shop that generally runs <20°C. I started to leave one of my LED task lights over the bars at night -- just enough heat that they work 500% better! Just buffed out a crack/finish repair on a Martin this morning and the stuff worked as it should.


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Nope, I've given up on my current bars. The 16 responded to heating up, the ATOL 6 not so much. Even tried putting them in our sous-vide water bath at 35°C for a few hours. I worked out that I've had these for 8 or 9 years. During that time, they've buffed guitars on 3 continents and spent about 9 months at sea in shipping containers, crossing the equator twice. With age, it seems the wax substrate has dried out, become very hard and no longer transfers easily to buff. I had problems last year, and this summer has been a nightmare.

So, I bit the bullet and ordered replacements from Jescar and, while I was spending money, ordered some new, softer buffs. I really hope this puts this issue behind me. I'll let you know, Trevor -- maybe yours are headed the same way.


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I think you're probably right, Tim. Sounds exactly like how mine doesn't work. I'll maybe get one more season out of it, as we're coming into summer here.

It'll be interesting to hear how the Jescar compares to the ColorTone (and the Menzerna).

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

Jescar is in fact distributing the Menzerna line. I couldn't find anyone in Canada handling the bars and Jescar seemed to the best price offshore. The numbering seems to have changed. I ordered the 204, 16 and P175, hoping to use them in that order after wet sanding with P800. We'll see. I have no experience with the ColorTone from Stewmac.


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I also have an Atol6 that would not transfer to the buffing wheel. I had purchased it earlier this year from Jescar and got it out to use in place of the (white) P175 that I did not like at all.

The word from Jescar was that they had complaints about the yellow P175. The complaints were from the yellow color getting all over. Well, I did not like the white P175, it seemed dryer and would not bring the surface to the clean, wet looking shine that I was getting with the yellow so I ordeed a yellow P175 and buffed a guitar a few days ago, sweet success once again.
I mentioned to Jescar that the Atol6 bar that I had previously ordered was hard can would not transfer to the buffing wheel, crickets.............

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jw ( o)===:::