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 Post subject: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:42 am 
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Koa
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First guitar build and I'm not ready to shell out $100+ dollars on a jig. I'm sure there are some good DIY jigs on this forum somewhere. I have a Dremel tool and a base, not the stewmac base. I also have a router.

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!
That's a reminder for me.

"Alan Carruth, IMO the 12-fret 000 or 14 fret OM size (15" wide lower bout) is god's size for the steel string guitar, especially for fingerstyle. I would also try to get away from scalloped bracing and lean toward 'straight' or 'tapered' bracing. Scalloped emphasizes bass and 'punch', where straight bracing, and especially 'tapered' (sometimes called 'parabolic') leans more toward treble and sustain."


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:14 am 
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First name: Daniel
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Country: United States
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Ken Cierp shared this plan a few years back

http://www.acousticguitarconstructionforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2858&view=next


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:18 am 
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Location: Bozeman, MT
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Here's one I made with scrap wood and a long machine screw. Worked fine, though I did upgrade to the SM base and jig after deciding that I'm going to be doing this for a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvihSdEQyzE

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 Post subject: Re: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:52 am 
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First name: Don
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Just a thought about your situation:

I know that some people use a Dremel for this job, and a Dremel does work OK, but I personally think a laminate trimmer is a better tool for the job. More power, more precision.

However, you don't own a laminate trimmer, right? So, you have to choose between jigging up your Dremel or jigging up your router.

Between the two, the Dremel is probably going to be easier to work with in terms of building a jig that will do the job and give you the adjustability you want. Plus, with a router, you will have to get a collett reducer to use the right bits. So, building a jig for your Dremel along the lines of what has been described above is probably the best way to go.

As you get deeper into building, however, consider moving up to a laminate trimmer for cutting rosette channels.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:00 pm 
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First name: colin
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Laminate trimmer can be had for $40 and this works well and is easy to make


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These users thanked the author Colin North for the post: banjopicks (Tue May 14, 2019 7:37 am)
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 Post subject: Re: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:12 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Location: Virginia
Here's one for $50 bucks. Think about how much time it takes to make one versus the cost of buying. Making jigs often times results in amking another one that is better then the first one too. Me personally I hate making jigs. I'd rather pay someone who's made hundreds of them and worked all the kinks out and is ready to go on day one ymmv.

https://elmerguitar.com/soundhole-and-r ... g-jig.html



These users thanked the author jfmckenna for the post: banjopicks (Tue May 14, 2019 5:28 am)
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 Post subject: Re: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:29 pm 
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Location: Spokane, Washington
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After messing about for years with the Wells/Karol jig with a lam trimmer, and a Dremel, I settled on a manual cutter, using a gramil blade for the cutter and an old router plane to take out the waste. Takes a bit longer, but I can get more accurate adjustments and a clean cut. The pin is in the padouk piece which slides between the side rails to adjust the radius. I had to add some sandpaper on the slider to maintain the radius adjustment. Never looked back!

Attachment:
IMG_0100 (1).jpg


Attachment:
IMG_0101.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 4:07 pm 
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Koa
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First name: Willard
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The Wells-Karol jig works well for us, and makes accurate 0.022” channels for narrow single color rings as easily as roughing out wider work. Mr. Chris Paulick posted a ‘how-to’ on making a Wells-Karol on YouTube.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9oRqUK-CM ... ex=65&t=0s

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These users thanked the author Woodie G for the post: banjopicks (Tue May 14, 2019 5:42 am)
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 Post subject: Re: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 6:21 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 3690
For your first guitar you might want to use the popsicle method. Basically you cut the scribe lines with a popsicle stick with an exacto blade stuck in one end and a series of small holes located along the stick at the radius points of the circles you want to scribe. You then place a small finishing nail through the center point of your soundhole and the holes in the stick. You manually rotate the stick around the nail allowing the exacto blade to cut into the soundboard. After you have scribed the limits of the rosette channel you can use your dremel to remove most of the material from the channel. When using this method I get as close as I dare with the router and then finish up the last little bit with a chisel. It's about as simple and cheap as you can go.
I think Natelson and Compiano mention this method in their book.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 5:29 am 
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Koa
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Posts: 594
jfmckenna wrote:
Here's one for $50 bucks. Think about how much time it takes to make one versus the cost of buying. Making jigs often times results in amking another one that is better then the first one too. Me personally I hate making jigs. I'd rather pay someone who's made hundreds of them and worked all the kinks out and is ready to go on day one ymmv.

https://elmerguitar.com/soundhole-and-r ... g-jig.html

Thanks I bookmarked that. That's a huge savings.

_________________
Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!
That's a reminder for me.

"Alan Carruth, IMO the 12-fret 000 or 14 fret OM size (15" wide lower bout) is god's size for the steel string guitar, especially for fingerstyle. I would also try to get away from scalloped bracing and lean toward 'straight' or 'tapered' bracing. Scalloped emphasizes bass and 'punch', where straight bracing, and especially 'tapered' (sometimes called 'parabolic') leans more toward treble and sustain."


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:11 am 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:19 am
Posts: 594
Pat Foster wrote:
After messing about for years with the Wells/Karol jig with a lam trimmer, and a Dremel, I settled on a manual cutter, using a gramil blade for the cutter and an old router plane to take out the waste. Takes a bit longer, but I can get more accurate adjustments and a clean cut. The pin is in the padouk piece which slides between the side rails to adjust the radius. I had to add some sandpaper on the slider to maintain the radius adjustment. Never looked back!

Attachment:
IMG_0100 (1).jpg


Attachment:
IMG_0101.jpg



Ill try this if I ever make wide rosette. I'm currently building an HD28.

_________________
Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!
That's a reminder for me.

"Alan Carruth, IMO the 12-fret 000 or 14 fret OM size (15" wide lower bout) is god's size for the steel string guitar, especially for fingerstyle. I would also try to get away from scalloped bracing and lean toward 'straight' or 'tapered' bracing. Scalloped emphasizes bass and 'punch', where straight bracing, and especially 'tapered' (sometimes called 'parabolic') leans more toward treble and sustain."


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:39 am 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:19 am
Posts: 594
Colin North wrote:
Laminate trimmer can be had for $40 and this works well and is easy to make


Where can I get that trimmer, I'm considering the HF one for $30. I had one once and it wasn't bad. Also, Where can I get a small chunk of that ply you have?

_________________
Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!
That's a reminder for me.

"Alan Carruth, IMO the 12-fret 000 or 14 fret OM size (15" wide lower bout) is god's size for the steel string guitar, especially for fingerstyle. I would also try to get away from scalloped bracing and lean toward 'straight' or 'tapered' bracing. Scalloped emphasizes bass and 'punch', where straight bracing, and especially 'tapered' (sometimes called 'parabolic') leans more toward treble and sustain."


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 8:35 am 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:19 am
Posts: 594
dpetrzelka wrote:


I'm putting this at the top of my list. It looks very easy to make.
Thank you

_________________
Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!
That's a reminder for me.

"Alan Carruth, IMO the 12-fret 000 or 14 fret OM size (15" wide lower bout) is god's size for the steel string guitar, especially for fingerstyle. I would also try to get away from scalloped bracing and lean toward 'straight' or 'tapered' bracing. Scalloped emphasizes bass and 'punch', where straight bracing, and especially 'tapered' (sometimes called 'parabolic') leans more toward treble and sustain."


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 8:50 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:33 am
Posts: 1414
First name: Willard
Last Name: Guthrie
City: Cumberland
State: Maryland 21502
Zip/Postal Code: 21502
Country: United State
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
The Ridgid 2401 laminate trimmer is another excellent tool with very accurate, fine depth adjustment, and the sort of features usually found on modern trimmers (LED lighting, soft start, variable speed to address cutter diameter-related tip speed differences). A close second is the newest DeWalt laminate trimmer, although it is a bit hefty at 4.6 lbs for the application. (versus the Ridgid's 3 lbs). Re: HF - not have the best reputation for durability of their small electrical tools, so figure that replacement with moderate use is a real possibility. For a quick, one-time use job, they can be viewed as an affordable, disposable option, but with the sort of use that many luthiers put trim routers to, the additional cost of a more robust, reliable tool might be warranted.

The laminate trimmer pictured above is a Porter Cable 310...they were workhorse laminate trimmers for decades before being discontinued a decade or so back. They should not be confused with the 7310, which - while equipped with a beefy motor - has terrible centering for bushing use and a frame which does not allow the sort of delicate depth adjustment necessary for some of the other uses trim routers typically see in guitar-making. The 310 is very old school...single speed, hard start, and solid as granite. That said, we long ago retired the single 310 in the shop in favor of the Ridgid 2nd generation laminate trimmer and the DeWalt trim router.

3/4" Delrin is another fine material for a Wells-Karol-style base (it's what we use in the shop), although you'll likely have to find someone selling cut-offs to afford a large-enough piece for the job. A 1/4" chucking reamer (really a slightly oversized one at 0.2505" or 0.251") is also handy for getting the holes for the radius rods sized correctly. Almost any material that will take and hold 10-24 (the clamping knobs and set screws) and 1/4-20 threads (the operating rod) will work - we made one out of 3/4" Lexan scrap that is still holding up, and we've done them in 18mm Baltic birch plywood and toughened the threading up with thin CA.

The jig allows very delicate adjustment if made right - 0.002" adjustments are doable and repeatable where a nylon tension screw is added to the design to engage the pivot post. Without any modification, the jig will cut to 1.5" diameter, with max diameter just a matter of adding longer 1/4" diameter arms.

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Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
– General George S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Woodie G on Tue May 14, 2019 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 9:32 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 3690
I would avoid the HF trimmer. They are very uneven in quality. A friend of mine bought one and had good luck with it. I bought a couple on sale. One had a rotor shaft that would move up and down causing a change in the depth of cut (not good!). The other one had soft brushes and immolated itself, going off like a flare in my hand.
Some HF tools are decent, but I would steer clear of the routers.
If I was in the market for a new trimmer I would look at the Makita. A little more money than the ridgid, but I've had better luck with Makita tools in general.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNXbG8AZBA4


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 Post subject: Re: DIY Rosette cutter
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 10:39 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

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First name: Ed
Last Name: Bond
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Country: Canada
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Status: Professional
The link to the cutter that goes down to 2" will be handy for future mandos...


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