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Wow I tried to cut a saddle slot the other day. Ruined two nice pieces of Ebony before I got out my hand operated inlay tool. Along with a sharp 1/4" chisel it made the job a little slower maybe. But didn't ruin any more wood. I did pick up a Dremel router base new at a flea market for $8 the other day. Haven't tried it yet though.


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Another vote for Foredom

OK - I've done more research on both brands. Spent quite a lot of time on the phone with the nice lady at Dremel. I can still send my broken stuff back for repairs (or replaced with an upgrade). And it's STILL less than $40, which is what they charged back in the 80's. So I'll do that.

I will take stock of all my other Dremel stuff to have repaired or pitched.
Probably going to buy a new Dremel 4000 kit at Lowes ($89 best price I've found).

ALSO going to buy a Proxxon. I really like the collets, which are like the machine tool collet (3 slots instead of 4) I am so familiar with. Have yet to find out if they have an American service center.... don't wanna ship it back to Germany for repairs.

So.... I'll have one for light work, and one for heavy duty. Sound like a plan?

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I've never used the Proxxon, but if I was going to get one for heavy duty, I would get a laminate trimmer. Seems a lot more versatile.

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Pat

Guess I should add that I still have my trusty Black and Decker router.... it's never failed me, but it really scatters the dust! (cough, cough)

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I started out with a sleeve bearing single speed Sears-branded Dremel that was marginal, at best. It was low on power, and the end play in the shaft made guesswork of cutting rosette channels or inlay pockets to a consistent depth.
After a few years, it blew the rectifier diode bridge, and I replaced it with one from Radio Shack. It lasted a couple more years....until the switch finally gave up the ghost.
But....not all Dremels are created equal.
The more expensive Dremel models have always had ball bearings. I like the old models, particularly the variable speed model number 380 series 66-3. These can occasionally be found on Ebay in unused or very good condition.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DREMEL-CORDED-ROTARY-TOOL-WITH-MISC-BITS-/151370633775?pt=Power_Tools&hash=item233e64922f

The worst ball bearing Dremel I have seen is a 395 type 3, which has a flexible coupling between the motor shaft and arbor shaft. This coupling fails frequently.
I have a 395 type 5 attached to a Stew Mac router base, and it seems to work fine. But I still like the old #380 with its rotary speed knob better.

I only use Dremels for inlay pockets, rosette channels, and for repair patches. For heavier work like bridge slotting and binding channels, I either use a Craftsman full-size router, a Skil small router, or a Rockwell laminate trimmer. All of these are older tools, and the Skil and the Rockwell have aluminum housings.
I am sure a $100 Proxxon is great, but I like my old 'Merican-made stuff just fine. Cheaper, too.

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John

Are today's Dremels still built in America, or has manufacture and assembly been shifted to the Far East ?

Unlike companies such as Incra, or Woodpeck, they appear to be distinctly coy about claiming "Proudly built in America".

Dreamels are made in China. Proxxon is good because they are still made in Germany.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

The Proxxon I bought burned up almost immediately.
Amazon reviews reveal an inordinately large amount of burnouts for a product that has relatively few sales compared to Dremel.
In my research I came across an electrical engineer who analyzed his Proxxons after they burned out and he determioned that the capacitors and resistors were undervalued for the usage, and he replaced them with better ones and didn't get any more burnouts.
Supposedly the bearings are tighter and they're quieter, but they only run to 20,000 RPMs, so I would expect them to be quieter than a Dremel running at 40,000.
I'm staying away from Proxxon, I don't care if they're made in Germany, Chinese stuff can be made well if it's spec'd right, the problem is most companies are being as cheap and crappy as the market let's them get away with, which is a lot, 'cuz everybody is becoming cheap and crappy.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

"I'm staying away from Proxxon, I don't care if they're made in Germany, Chinese stuff can be made well if it's spec'd right, the problem is most companies are being as cheap and crappy as the market let's them get away with, which is a lot, 'cuz everybody is becoming cheap and crappy."

When you check out the reviews for the cheaper Proxxon you will see that the number of 3 star and less is about 40% of the total. Many of the 5 star ratings were given by people who recently purchased the tool and haven't put it through it's paces. The more expensive model appears to fair better, but still has a number of "total fails" that I would not expect from a high quality tool.
I have noticed the same trend that Guitarwhisperer has - tool makers are making cheap and crappy "consumer grade" tools that Joe homeowner might use 3 times and toss away. It's ironic that people comment on the quality of Harbor Freight tools improving, when it's more likely the brand names are getting closer to the same low standard. Buy cheap , and when it breaks you will cry less!
I have a number of Rockwell and PC tools that are probably pushing 30 years old +. I don't expect that will be the case with the new stuff.

Mine works and has worked for 4 years. Never put much stock in Amazon reviews.
If I had to ponder a dang router motor for all these posts, I'd shoot myself.

Mine burned up, and yours still works, therefore Amazon reviews are bogus?

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Old growth, shmold growth!

The Dremels I have are 25,000 maximum.
I run mine at full speed when doing rosette channels, but I see no need to run faster than about 1/3 when cutting inlay channels with a sharp carbide dental bit. Run that slow, the Dremels are much quieter.

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John

Even the cheapest air pencil grinders have really good runout, in fact no runout. Only problem is they eat up more air than their size suggest...

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

My dremel does 35,000.
I thought some went to 40,000

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Not, in fact, so.

I decided to check up for myself, and got this response from the European marketing director:



It does appear that there have been cheap Chinese knock-offs (labeled as Dremels) sold on Ebay at around $26.00 , so maybe that is what has confused you.

No, I said I don't put much stock in Amazon reviews, period. What's the problem?

'Runout' is defined as spinning off-axis, which is a non-issue.....unless you are trying to cut a slot that is exactly the same width as the bit. The best way to cut an accurately-sized slot is to use a smaller bit and make two or more passes. That applies to any routing operation, regardless of the tooling being used.
If you mean end play, none of my ball bearing Dremels have it. End play is important because it defeats the goal of cutting an accurate depth when using a router base. Axial play of the ball bearing models is rarely an issue, either, What you do have to varying degrees is axial flexibility at the collet, which can be a problem if you try to take too large a bite, but for my uses, it is not much of an issue.

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John

Well, let's look at your quote first:



In this context, you are basically saying that the Amazon reviews are bogus, since yours has worked for 4 years.

The implication is that since yours still works after 4 years, the Amazon reviews are bogus or unreliable.

I don't know if that's a "problem", per se, but that definitely is what your post implies.

I found that the implication didn't stand scrutiny. How can your one experience negate the Amazon reviews, when there is at least one other experience (mine) that corroborated the Amazon reviews?

I hope this clarifies the matter and soothes your mind.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Read into it what you like.

I bought an air pencil on the bay from an american firm that had supposedly upgraded the import tool with better bearings. It had horrible run-out, nearly 1/16". Totally useless.

Runout is certainly a real problem. The tool described above had more runout at higher speeds due to centrifugal force so the width of cut varied profusely.

I think instead I'll make logical and reasonable inferences based on the definitions of the words used, sentence structure and grouping, and the context in which the sentences appear (which includes relevant posts that are being responded too as well as the general thread that the response appears in).

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Old growth, shmold growth!

C'mon, guys. Give it up.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

All I know is that I have had my proxxon for years and it is still smoother and quieter than any dremel I have used. Much closer to the foredom, but in a single unit at a much lower price

-jd

Update: Sent in my broken Dremel from the 80's.... they replaced it with a rebuilt 3000 model... for less than $21, and that's with shipping included. You just can't beat that price. I think my two other Dremels are headed back to Racine....

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince