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So, my day job has been beyond demanding for the last half year, and that has kept me away from this project of experimenting with Clean Armor. I finally got a break over the Memorial Day weekend, and spent some of it playing around with this finish. I have a lot more playing around to do, but I thought I would share some initial impressions, and a few photos.

I had ordered four products: The 810 sealer; the 800 grain filler; the 820 top coat; and a handheld Cuvo brand curing lamp. The 800 series is their instrument finish. Their 700 series is the general purpose line.

I sanded a small walnut board with 80, 120, 180, and 220 grit Stikit papers, then water popped the grain and sanded at 220 again to knock off the raised grain. I applied the sealer first. Note that I am not following any instructions from Clean Armor or Avant, the dealer that focuses on selling the instrument finish. I have reached out to get some more instructions from them, and that might change how I use the products. Anyhoo, the sealer is like a thin honey. It wipes on fine with a lint free cloth, and it cures great. I wound up with a well sealed, open grain surface, ready for a pore filler. I sanded a bit with 320 just to even things out, and it produced a nice white sanding dust.

The pore filler is thicker; more like a thick honey. I spread it with a credit card. A little goes a long way, and I overestimated how much it would take, so I had to wipe a fair amount off. This product also cured great, and produced a white sanding dust. I applied two coats, but on a guitar, I might do three. I like a perfectly flat surface after pore filling. This was almost perfect after two rounds.

The top coat is the same consistency as the sealer: thin honey. It wipes on very well. Early on, I faced the one issue that the company warns you about. You have to put enough product on in order for the product to cure properly. If you put it on too thin, it won't cure right. I had that happen once with the top coat. I learned my lesson and put it down a bit thicker after that (about 1 mil), and the problem was solved.

After two coats of the top coat, I leveled and sanded up through the grits with Assilex papers. It all went well, but when I tried buffing, I burned through here and there. I think I need to put down more coats in order to get enough thickness to stand up to level sanding and buffing.

A few overall impressions:

This stuff is very easy to deal with, but like any new thing, you have to learn its quirks. You have to put on enough product in order for it to cure. This was only an issue for me with the top coat, but it was an issue one time. You have to hold the curing lamp at least a foot away from the surface being cured, and cure it for two minutes. The rest is pretty normal.

I wound up liking a microfiber cloth for applying the more liquid components (sealer and top coat). A credit card was better for the pore filler. I didn't like using a squeegee on the pore filler. That will take some adjustment (I like using a squeegee with other products). There is practically no smell, and there are no solvents. So, it is a pretty chill experience to finish with this stuff. Wipe it on, get it looking the way you want, then hit it with the light. Easy peasy. If you follow the rules (put enough on, cure for the full 2 minutes), you wind up with a very nice sandable finish.

I look forward to experimenting more and showing some fully sanded and buffed photos in a few weeks, but for the meantime, here are some photos after the second top coat was cured, but before any level sanding happened. Again, this was with a single sealer coat, two applications of pore filler, and two applications of the top coat:

Looks promising, Don! Do you know if this is the same stuff that Bryan Galloup was / is promoting? I tried to find the Instagram post where I first saw him talking about a UV cured finish but I cannot find it again.


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Looking forward to seeing the results…I’ve got two jugs of the stuff just staring at me.

Brad—

I don’t think it’s the same product (link to the Galloup video sent via text message), but there are a number of new UV cure products out there.

I can say this: compared to the other UV cure materials you and I have used (you far more than I), this is way easier to deal with. The Cardinal isolante is highly toxic before curing. You have to spray the Cardinal isolante and top coat. The cure lamps for the Cardinal products are powerful enough to give you a sunburn. With this Clean Armor stuff, I don’t have to put on my space suit or fire up the air compressor or set up my spray booth; I just lower the window shade and put on some nitrile gloves. If I wind up needing to do a little more level sanding to compensate for padding instead of spraying, I’ll still consider myself ahead of the game.

With the film meter I don’t see how you could not succeed, eventually. I wonder about durability and repairability. They claim 100% burn in, but I was unable to get a perfect patch. It’d be interesting to see your results trying to fix up those few burn throughs you had…

First time I’ve logged in here in over a decade <smh>.

Any update on this product? I have health problems with my lungs so looking at finish options.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

Darryl—

My day job and a band thing have been overwhelming, so I haven’t had any time to build guitars or experiment with finishes for several months. I think things are calming down, so I hope to get back to it soon. Also, I gave some samples of the Clean Armor finish materials to a builder friend in Lewisburg, WV, so he can experiment with it, too. I’ll report back after he and I develop some opinions. But as reported above, it ticks a lot of boxes for me so far.

I ordered the Clean Armor Finish Sample Kit to do some testing. I ordered the kit with the:

- Classic Instrument 805HB Sealer
- Classic Instrument 830 Buffable Clearcoat

Should be interesting…

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I’ve used it for four guitars now. I may do a write up in a separate thread if you guys want more details and pictures.

The best thing about this stuff is how quickly you can spray it and finish the guitar. If you accidentally sand through somewhere, you can just take a dropper, put some more on, and three minutes later be back where you were before you sanded through.

There’s almost no smell. Cleanup is a breeze. There’s been a couple of times where I forgot and left finish in my gun overnight and it still cleaned up quickly and easily with no curing happening in the gun.

On the con side, it’s very difficult, not to get witness lines between the different layers. I need to build up multiple layers before sanding, but I have to cure and sand every single layer. If I don’t do this, after I’ve buffed everything out, when I look in the light, I see witness lines from every layer that sanded through. It looks sort of like a topographical map very faintly in the finish. It’s definitely undesirable. I get around this by either sanding with a maroon scotch bright pad, or 320 sandpaper. Occasionally, I still don’t do a good enough job and get witness lines. It’s very frustrating.

Another con is how long it takes to buff. It literally takes me 8 to 10 hours to buff a Guitar after sanding up to 2000 grit. They’ve released a new version called 830 now which they claim to be more buffable. I haven’t tried it yet, but it has to be better than the 820.

When it’s all said and done, the finish is very thin and very hard. I think it sounds amazing. It also looks superior to lacquer, with the exception of the witness lines. I usually don’t get witness lines, but on the last guitar, I did get a few on the soundboard, even though I sanded it to what I thought was good enough. I think I didn’t get those witness lines on the back sides because the darker wood was easier to see where I had sanded good enough or not.

I might switch to a different system used by the large guitar makers. I didn’t want to use the more dangerous UV light, but they allow to spray up to three coats before curing. You just wait 20 minutes between each coat. that would be much more desirable.

I wet stack three coats of Cardinal polyester with a flash between coats and then cure it as one single film.

I’m curious - what would prevent you from doing the same with the Clean Armor? Is it not possible to stack without runs and sags?

Brad


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Tom—

If you are interested in buying one of the larger UV lamp setups like you would use with Cardinal finish products, let me know. I bought two of them a few years ago, both used, but in good working order. I can let at least one of them go.

Are you fully committed to spraying finish? I’m experimenting with wiping on the Clean Armor, and I like it. Of course, as referenced above, my other responsibilities are taking up all my time right now, so my experiments are slow.

Don, you have one of those film thickness meters IIRC? What did it show?

Ed--

I haven't been taking thickness measurements yet, but I just now took a moment and tested the thinnest sample I have, the one where I burned through while buffing. Here is the result:



As you can see, that's pretty thin! If I had put more on, and/or sanded less off, and been less of an idiot during buffing, it would have been a perfectly thin sample with no burn through. I don't think getting this stuff down to the thickness you want on the top would be any more difficult than doing it with other finishes.

Regarding Tom's struggles with witness lines, I haven't had that problem, but I'm not thinning it or spraying it. Also, since I have seen video warnings to not attempt to apply this stuff too thin (it won't cure properly if applied too thin), I have made it a point to put a healthy coat on each time. I also sand pretty well between coats.

It’s not how much you put on, it’s how much you leave on, amiright? Seems with that meter, all you’d need to do is measure how much you’re losing to buffing and make sure you had enough initially to leave you with your target final film thickness.

How did you find it for buffing?

Ed--

I haven't experimented enough with it to give you a reliable opinion on how buffing goes. Moreover, I have not tried to buff the more "buffable" version of the topcoat. So, I should hold off on talking about it until I know more.

Tom certainly has more time with the products than I do. I would love to see a full thread from him about his experience with this stuff. My own experiments are being held up by day job responsibilities.

Regarding the Positector: Yeah, it's pretty handy. It allows you to put the finish on a bit thicker, then sand back to the thickness you want.

Jeez I wish I bought one when it was merely 2k$…

Tom--

Over the weekend, I was thinking about your buffing experience with Clean Armor. I offer this as just a possibility, since I don't know for sure what was going on for you.

In Jeff Jewitt's Lutherie Academy video course on leveling, wet sanding and buffing, he recommends a certain approach to catalyzed polyurethane, which, like Clean Armor, is a very durable thermoset finish. Jeff recommends taking the pre-buffing sanding as far as you can take it. He goes up to P5000. Partly, this is because durable thermoset finishes don't really melt during buffing like thermoplastic finishes (nitrocellulose lacquer, shellac) do. Partly, it is out of a desire to keep the buffing time as short as possible, out of fear of the buffer. Jeff says that, if you try to approach buffing thermoset finishes the same way you buff thermoplastic finishes, it probably will not work out well.

Again, I don't know if your buffing marathon can be avoided by taking Jeff's approach, but it might be worth a try.