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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2025 6:37 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:23 am
Posts: 2366
Location: United States
Here is the latest Luthier Tips du Jour video. In this video I invite Trevor Gore to answer a viewer's question about the difference between using 3 or 4 back braces.
This video as well as all my other videos are available via my website, https://lutherieacademy.com/videos , or on YouTube.
Don't forget to subscribe to the O'Brien Guitars YouTube channel if you want to get the latest Luthier Tips du Jour videos when they are released.
CLICK HERE TO WATCH VIDEO


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2025 10:54 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:15 pm
Posts: 7647
First name: Ed
Last Name: Bond
City: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
You can absolutely get a live back with four braces, been doing it since the books came out.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2025 9:21 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:17 am
Posts: 1066
Location: United States
City: Tyler
State: Texas
I was shivering just looking at that picture of Antarctica.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2025 3:16 am 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:45 pm
Posts: 1500
First name: Trevor
Last Name: Gore
City: Sydney
Country: Australia
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
meddlingfool wrote:
You can absolutely get a live back with four braces, been doing it since the books came out.


But on classical guitars? That was Stephanie's question. :-)

Can be done, but you need pretty skinny braces. Fleta was just about the only "big name" classical luthier to use 4 back braces, specifically, it seems, to make non-live backs on his guitars. Fleta chose to use a strong diagonal dipole, obtained with asymmetric top bracing, to extend the response in the T(1,1)3 frequency area.

So I think I got the right answer out, even though, by the look of the video, I hadn't slept for a week (jet lag!!)

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2025 1:19 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 3999
Location: United States
With four back braces I make the lower two low and wide, as in Martins. You get the structural strength you need with more mass and not so much added stiffness.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 9:40 pm 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:45 pm
Posts: 1500
First name: Trevor
Last Name: Gore
City: Sydney
Country: Australia
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Alan Carruth wrote:
With four back braces I make the lower two low and wide, as in Martins. You get the structural strength you need with more mass and not so much added stiffness.


Correct! (of course. It's Al C!)

Most people (at least on this site) are aware that brace stiffness runs with the cube of the brace depth (rectangular section). So make a brace twice as tall and it will be 8 times as stiff.

Fewer people, I suspect, are aware of the fact that double the span of a centre-loaded beam and you get eight times the deflection for the same load, so an inverse cube rule. Going on the width of a classical guitar (~360mm) compared with the width of a dreadnought guitar (~405mm), the D brace is only ~70% as stiff for the same brace cross section. But from the vibrational point of view (which is, after all, what we're interested in) it will also be carrying more mass, because of the extra length of the brace and the extra mass in the panel. All up, with the increased span and thickness of the panel, the mass increase will be of the order of ~30%. A quick calc. shows you need about 90% extra brace stiffness in a D to get get back to the same vibrational performance as the smaller classical, which (phew!) tells you why Ds have four back braces and classicals have three.

_________________
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au


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