Official Luthiers Forum!

hello everyone. My name is Donnie Gilliam,I have been a member for several years but this is my first post.I have talked to John Hall a few times and he has been a lot of help to get on my first neck re-set.Have been building some dulcimers and repairs but I hope to start my first guitar soon. I have over fifty years as a woodworker and just about every power and hand tool you can name but never built a guitar.As far as safety, it is a frame of mind and you must keep your mind on it every time you turn on a power tool.Every time I hit the switch I say to myself this will cut my fingers or hand clean off. a kick back could impale a piece of wood into my gut.Fancy saws that cost a lot of money will still hurt you if you break the rules.IMO,a uni saw old or new is still the best all around saw you can buy and at a decent cost.Get a good fence and build an OUT FEED TABLE for the longest and widest material you plan use.My uni saw has a 4x8 out feed table,as I build all sorts of things.It is mounted to the saw and has casters on it as well as my saw I can move it anywhere. This is a big plus.If you can not keep your mind on safety and what you are doing,leave these big saws alone and build with hand tools.Hope this will help some of you.thanks for your time and work safe .Donnie

Terence..I have a contractor sawstop. .
You can bypass the safety when you're not sure about nails and wet wood by using the key lock...but still needs blade/safety cartridge match.
I'm a retired cabinet maker and used all kinds of saws...was planning to get a unisaw but sawstops are nice...I'm hoping to keep my fingers intact as I approach senility. I wish more tools come out with safeties.
They are also very well built. I was concerned that they are made in Taiwan but the quality control and build specs are great...better that some non-asian stuff.
The longevity of the electronics is untested but I'm not sure all power tools should be heirlooms anyway...unlike hand tools. I inherited all my dad's tools but I don't use the saw/jointer combo or Guild(no parts) skillsaw. Some 'newer' stuff is better safety/health wise...I love Festools.
One thing I like is the cam action lock for the blade guards..fast to switch from shield to riving...gives me incentive to always use the shield.
One thing I hate is adjusting for different size 10" blades...all brands are not 10". I usually just use my Tenryu blades(10-1/16"). My Forrest are 9-7/8". Recommended clearance is about a nickel.
I also had to box up the bottom and put a removable panel in back by the motor for better dust control. The dust collecting shield is good but extra $.

For what its worth...there was a short video showing the owner of sawstop using his finger to stop the blade. But he moved micro slow and soaked his hand in ice water (don't know the real reason why). The faster your finger moves the more damage.
I always use my seat belt and my tacoma has airbags and ABS and I like that, even though I'm not positive it will work (I'm ok with crash dummies and hotdogs). When I use to ride dirt bikes, I would go home if I forgot my helmet. I ride a sportster on the street and never use a helmet. We all do dumb things.

edit:I decided to edit out how I bypassed the safety to use the fret sawblades. I don't think its wise to tell people how to bypass safety things. Lets just say its possible.

edit: I decided to edit out how I plan to bypass the safety to use the fret blades. I was thinking and don't think its wise to tell people how to bypass safety issues. Lets just say it can be done if done "safely".

In my opinion the Unisaw is the best table saw ever built. The new ones only tilt to the right but the old ones, which is what I learned on tilt to the left. Old ones are better.

Is Sawstop more expensive than a new, equal featured (except for the SS brake) Unisaw or a PM2000? It depends on which version you buy. Today's pricing from http://www.sawstop.com/products/compare/ and http://www.acmetools.com/:

SAWSTOP 10 In. 3 HP Industrial Cabinet Table Saw with 30 in. Fence Model# ICS31230
MSRP:$3,733.00

SAWSTOP 10 in. 3 HP Professional Cabinet Table Saw with 30 In. Fence Model# PCS31230-PFA30
MSRP: $2,979.00

DELTA 10In 3HP Unisaw with 36In Biesemeyer Fence Model# 36-L336
MSRP: $5,040.00
NOW: $3,419.99

POWERMATIC PM2000 3 HP 1PH Table Saw, with 30 In. Accu-Fence System Model# 1792002K
MSRP: $3,479.99
NOW: $2,899.99

If I had to buy a new cabinet saw today a Sawstop would be a no-brainer. Most of us don't need the heavy duty features of the ICS version of the SawStop. If you do need an ICS and can't deal with the price, find a used one. They're built like a tank and bearings, switches and belts are standard wear items and easily replaced. They pop up on Craigslist, industrial auction sites (tell them what you're looking for) and Woodworking related swap and sell sections. Also tell your local SS dealer you need one. Someone will invariably be upgrading/dying/getting out of the business and they will be in the chain of communication.

Keep the blood on the inside.

This company drives me nuts. I wish they would simply get off of it and sell this technology

http://www.whirlwindtool.com/2012/index ... &Itemid=44

Mike

That looks interesting, but I can see where there might be some problems using a power feeder for narrow ripping operations, and for using cutoff sleds.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Well, I don't think you will ever see it. This guy has been around a while and appears to have no interest in getting it licensed. My guess is there are real problems with the idea.

Todd made his point several posts back- you're spending more on a safety feature, and less on the saw.

If we forget the brake and take a closer look at "actual saw", here's how it stacks up:
Considering the assembled weights of the models you listed, both the Delta Unisaw and the Powermatic PM2000 outweigh the best offering of the SawStop (ICS) by close to a hundred pounds, and this is with the ICS having a wider table.
If you wish to bring the SawStop down to the same price range as the Delta and Powermatic offerings by considering the PCS, then the difference in mass increases even more (225+ pounds).

If somebody needs something, they begin the search for fulfillment. As always, those needs can and will vary, but I have yet to find someone who needs the abilities of a cabinet saw wish for a lighter saw.

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Always have plenty of sandpaper; it's rough out there!

+1 on Delta Unisaw - I have an X5 2 yr old .. theres not much that this baby cant do incl moldings, mine has the Biesmeyer 5' cabinet shop table/fence.I wouldnt have gotten this expensive add on,,, but it came with the saw - the saw also came with a rip and crosscut saw (brand new) - and a never used 8" dado set as well.... $1200 - I didnt need a saw this big really but at that price I couldnt resist.. the reason the guy was getting rid of it was his wife needed more room in the garage to store her crap - his loss my gain...
you can find good deals like this all the time on CL
PS cuts 4" laminated oak beams like butter....
Cheers
Charlie

I bought a used, made in Canada General. You don't see as many of them on the used market as Deltas ( so many more Delta vs. General sold ). Some of the older ones can be a good value. If you buy used, make sure that you can get replacement parts for it.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

With a 10" Blade in one pass?

I ended up going with a Delta Cabinet saw. Its one step down from the Unisaw with 2HP 220 single phase, and a 32" Unifence. I'll get some pics up as soon as I get it setup. Oh, and I ended up getting it for $800.

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Jason McGowan
M&S Guitars
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United States of America, looks like another silent night
As we're sung to sleep by philosophies that save the trees and kill the children....
Casting Crowns

I was recently shopping for a table saw. When I came to my senses about what my fingers and hands are worth to me I realized that a SawStop was the ONLY answer for ME. I would be crazy to buy a table saw and take a risk that I can't afford to lose. I found that the SawStop Contractor Saw is about $1500 if you avoid being up-sold with add-ons. Its a good saw.

For guitar building work, my bandsaw is key. I do not have a table saw set up except for a 4" hobby saw that I just inherited from my deceased father. A table saw as a first major purchase for guitar building seems questionable to me.

The main job I ask my tablesaw to do is slotting fingerboards. If the Sawstop can't run a slotting blade then it can't perform the main task I need it to do. As lovely as the technology is, that saw is worthless to me. I'm all for safety but why would I buy a tool that can't perform the job I need it to do. Now if they could put this technology on the pin router I'd be all over it because that machine always scares the crap out of me.

5HP Baby!!! Grrrrr
Cheers
Charliewood

It still won't cut 4" in a single pass, no matter what the HP is ...

I'm pretty sure that Delta made a 14" Unisaw model. My General will do a 4" rip as well.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

They may well have done, it's just that I worked in several different cabinet shops in the East more than 12 years ago, they all had Delta Unisaws and they were all 10" models. Things may well have changed since then...(actually you wouldn't need a 14" blade to give a 4" depth of cut, a 12" blade would suffice ...)