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Robert Lak
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:10 pm 
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Let’s say for some odd reason i really didn't want to cut the slots in the fingerboard and that i had some defective fretwire that was missing the tangs... Is there any reason that I couldn’t just epoxy them into place on the fretboard? The only things that I can come up with are:

Positioning them and holding them in place until they cured might be a bit testy.

Epoxy squeeze-out clean up might be messy?

There might be some issue with fret replacement... tear-out of the fretboard?

Without really knowing anything about epoxy, they should be fairly permanent and it would "Work"?
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meddlingfool
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:03 pm 
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I had a fella wanted to 1\4 tone a classical. We used CA and it held fine...
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theguitarwhisperer
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:11 pm 
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That's how some Parker's are done.

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wbergman
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:30 pm 
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I've had epoxy release from wood even though I thought it was well prepared. But I know nothing.
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RusRob
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:12 pm 
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I think you pretty much answered your own question... idunno

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mkellyvrod
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:44 pm 
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Sounds possible - what kind of defective fretwire are you thinking about?
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Jim Watts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:58 pm 
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I've seen round stainless steel rod epoxied in half round grooves before for frets, so yeah, it should work.

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Robert Lak
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:32 pm 
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Well, i had me this idea... but before i do tell i want to try it out first. Knowing the speed at which i work it could be years! Eat Drink

It's good to know that it so far it might not be completely laughable.
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Clay S.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:50 pm 
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Wood moves according to changes in humidity, metal moves according to changes in temperature. Going from hot /dry to cold/wet conditions may break the bond of a ridged glue like epoxy. 100 % silicone (aquarium sealant)might be a better choice. Another thing to consider would be using a phenolic material, like Richlite, that shouldn't move according to humidity changes.
I've thought about using the stainless steel inserts that stiffen wiper blades as fretting material. I've even collected a few. They are tall enough to be set in a groove, but rather thin and unbarbed, so would probably need to be glued in. Thinking about it is as far as I've come also. [:Y:]
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GustavBuhund
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:30 pm 
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Two words: Fretless neck
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Robert Lak
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:39 pm 
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"Two words: Fretless neck"

Maybe. Then again mabe too radical for me... a low level player. I'll have to do some youtube searches to see if that interests me.
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jshelton
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:57 pm 
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Jim Watts wrote:
I've seen round stainless steel rod epoxied in half round grooves before for frets, so yeah, it should work.

I bet that was a Richard Schneider guitar.


These users thanked the author jshelton for the post: Ken Jones (Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:31 pm)
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RusRob
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:10 pm 
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If you are looking for an alternative to metal frets you could look at either bone or shell. I have seen some vintage 1800's parlor guitars with ivory frets and bone would be a good replacement. They would not move with heat or humidity and would be pretty easy to glue on with CA glue. It would give your guitar a distinctive look if anything else. As long as you were not doing a lot of bends when you play it would probably wear pretty well.

Just an idea if you didn't want the problems associated with metal moving different then the wood.

Cheers,
Bob
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weslewis
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:21 pm 
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Why?? idunno idunno

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Robert Lak
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:11 pm 
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RusRob wrote:
Just an idea if you didn't want the problems associated with metal moving different then the wood.


Nice guess but nope.
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Robert Lak
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:15 pm 
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Why? Because!

Let's just say i had an ineresting idea and iI am not aware that anyone has tried it. Matter of fact, i should have googled it before now... I'm going to do that right now and see.... Nope... nada! bliss
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RusRob
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:14 am 
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Robert Lak wrote:
RusRob wrote:
Just an idea if you didn't want the problems associated with metal moving different then the wood.


Nice guess but nope.



It isn't a guess. There were guitars fretted in Ivory in the 1800's.

A quote from the "Early Romantic Guitar Information Home Page"

Quote:
One issue ... is the wear characteristic. Nickel steel frets found on modern instruments turn copper and gut strings into tattered remnants very soon. On the terz guitars I made I went to great lengths to have brass frets. I got some brass rods from the hobby store, about 2 or 3 mm in diameter, had a jeweler put them through a band press (which every jeweler has) to fit into a pre-cut slot, made with a hand saw which I use only for that purpose, specially sharpened and set. Then the frets are leveled, rounded and polished. They stand up from the fingerboard only 1 mm! The lowness of the fretting and the low action (Panormo and Terz) make the guitar ultra-responsive and more like the lute or tied frets on a period guitar, which have frets about .8 or .7 mm high. This changes the whole character. The wear problem is much reduced since brass is quite soft. I have my Panormo fretted in ivory, probably the best material, salvaged from pianos. With all these things in place you will have a new experience of fretting. More articulate. Less work to do. Better vibrato. Less string wear and intonation problems. But, less tension and softer."



Robert Lak wrote:
Why? Because!

Let's just say i had an ineresting idea and iI am not aware that anyone has tried it. Matter of fact, i should have googled it before now... I'm going to do that right now and see.... Nope... nada! bliss


I am not sure what you are dancing about, If it is that you couldn't find any reference to using Ivory for frets or if you couldn't find anything about gluing frets on but both have been done. So you didn't invent a new way of fretting an instrument.


Frankly I think you would be making a mistake by trying to glue frets on, Ivory, Bone or metal.

There is a good reason frets are inserted into slots, it has been done for a very long time with excellent results.
Most other ways have proven to be inferior. And if you do it I am sure you will find out why it isn't a great idea.

Bob
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Robert Lak
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:57 am 
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"If it is that you couldn't find any reference to using Ivory for frets or if you couldn't find anything about gluing frets on but both have been done. So you didn't invent a new way of fretting an instrument."

Neither.

Not interested in ivory frets and knew that frets had been glued on, just wasn't sure how well they might hold on. The only thing i haven't heard here yet is whether they would be a pain to replace, if epoxy breaks easily enough or would one tend to ruin the fretboard trying to get them off..
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Clay S.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:08 am 
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Heating the fret with a soldering iron should soften the epoxy to make removal fairly easy.
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Glen H
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:43 am 
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Robert Lak wrote:
The only thing i haven't heard here yet is whether they would be a pain to replace, if epoxy breaks easily enough or would one tend to ruin the fretboard trying to get them off..



Ok, they would be a pain to replace. And a pain to install this way in the first place.
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ZekeM
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:50 am 
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Let's think about it....

Benefits:none
Disadvantages:many

....and we have come to the conclusion that gluing frets on is not worth the trouble.
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RusRob
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:25 am 
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Robert Lak wrote:
"If it is that you couldn't find any reference to using Ivory for frets or if you couldn't find anything about gluing frets on but both have been done. So you didn't invent a new way of fretting an instrument."

Neither.

Not interested in ivory frets and knew that frets had been glued on, just wasn't sure how well they might hold on. The only thing i haven't heard here yet is whether they would be a pain to replace, if epoxy breaks easily enough or would one tend to ruin the fretboard trying to get them off..


As I said in my first post.

I think you answered your own question in the opening statement to this thread.

Quote:
Positioning them and holding them in place until they cured might be a bit testy.


YES... Nearly impossible...

Quote:
Epoxy squeeze-out clean up might be messy?


YES...

Quote:
There might be some issue with fret replacement... tear-out of the fretboard?


YES Most Definitely

Quote:
Without really knowing anything about epoxy, they should be fairly permanent and it would "Work"?


YES... Epoxy has excellent holding power and when your frets come of (AND THEY WILL) it will rip out big chunks of your fretboard.


So my question is:

Why would you even consider doing this?

Bob
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Robert Lak
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:20 am 
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"Why would you even consider doing this?"

It's a personality defect. I like trying odd things. It's what led me to start building my own guitar rather than just buying one *sigh* 6 years ago.

"Benefits:none
Disadvantages:many

....and we have come to the conclusion that gluing frets on is not worth the trouble."

True... unless there IS a reason... even if the reason is just to be a bit creative, out-of-the-box or pain-in-the-a$$ (choose one).
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Joe Sallis
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:56 am 
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My guess is that you want the frets to go in a wiggly line across the fret board in an attempt to compensate each string differently.

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ZekeM
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:47 am 
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Joe Sallis wrote:
My guess is that you want the frets to go in a wiggly line across the fret board in an attempt to compensate each string differently.

Like this?Image
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